Problem: Seller reports problem with sale
09-27-2006: Kiso initiated process
10-06-2006: Glory submitted response
Kiso describes the events as follows:
06-14-06
Kiso is requesting the following resultion:
gary bought from me a audionote spx on june 2006. recieved the cable and claim that its geniune also some time in june 2006.also claimed that he has checked with his counterpart
leave a feedback after purchase and even said that is real
The purchase exceeded my expectations. Lighting fast shipping. Three business days from Singapore to FL.Great communication,as if he lived next door to me.The real deal as many have found out already. A+++++++++++++
Positive by Buyer Glory (225) on 06-14-06 re: Cables
now is september 2006 , he claim that his counterpart cut open the wire and claim that is fake cable...he wants full refund
after many months of using the cables , he decide its time to combine with his counterpart to stip the wire, and accuse me of selling him fake and demanded a full refund
. a. receiving the goods after few months
b. confirming that the cable is real
c. giving a positive feedback
d. accusing me of selling fake after months of recieving
e. damaging the cable and then accusing me of selling fake .and further claiming full refund
f. damaging my credibility in this unruly manner as a second hand dealer g. gary a dealer himself with over 200 plus feedback which is positive, whilst I have 400 plus feedback .....will I take risk in selling fakes ...?????
and all items that I sold in the past are different items ...are all items I sold fake ?????
how can he just accuse me after using the items for many months ???
he could damage the the real cable and then decide to get refund
Glory describes the events as follows:
I bought what I thought was an AudioNote 2.5 meter SPX cable from Kiso in June. I make it a practice to rely heavily on feedback to determine the trustworthiness of a seller so I trusted him because of his score of over 400.
My system was not wired for this cable. But I love AudioNote equipment and thought it was a good deal, so I bought it thinking I could have my system rewired. I gave him a positive feedback because the communication and transaction was very smooth and quick. My comment "The real deal as many have found out..." is referring to Kiso and his status as a seller, referring to his other feedback, NOT to the cables themselves. I believe this is clear from the language (if terms are different in Singapore, I wouldn't know it). The rest of the feedback oobviously refers to the transaction, not the performance of the cables. Because of Kiso's feedback and the general integrity of Audiogon, I assumed that the cables were real, but I had not verified this at the time of my feedback.
The expert I had wanted to rewire my system was busy with other projects and could not get to it. So after awhile I decided to go ahead and sell the cables since I never used them. In the process I was contacted by a potential buyer who told me these cables were fake. I was completely shocked! I tried to tell him he was mistaken, but the source of his information was Peter Qvortrup, Owner of AudioNote. I know Peter and called him to find out the truth of the matter. He verified to me that the photos I had on Audiogon were of fake cables. These photos show that the wording on the cables says "Music's Finest 27 Conductor" when authentic cables say "Music's Finest Conductor." The fakes say "Standard" while real AudioNote cables say "Strand." Also, these cables say "Pure Silver 99.99% Litz Speaker Cable" which is the wrong sequence of words because the authentic ones say "99.99% Pure Silver Litz Speaker Cable."
Peter is extremely upset about these "thieves" (his words) and urgently wants to press charges against those producing these fakes. He knows they are coming out of China and he wants to pursue every lead of people selling these in order to stop this illegal practice. He urged me to cut this cable open to confirm that the foam around the "silver" is not authentic and to scrape the silver with a knife to see that it is covering copper, not pure silver. I did this on the very edge of the cable to make sure all this was true. The foam is undoubtedly fake and to my eye it does appear to be copper under the silver. I did this specifically at Peter's request. I knew that I could have them re-terminated if they turned out to be worth using. But I now know without a shadow of a doubt that these are not AudioNote cables. Peter plans to use my photos of these cables on the Audiogon website as a warning to would-be buyers to stay away from frauds. If you need any additional proof, please contact Peter through the AudioNote website and he will verify this.
It is true that it has been 3 months since this transaction originally took place. However, finding out that one has bought something illegal should take precedence over the matter of a few months.
I understand that Kiso may have been ignorant that these cables are fake when he sold them to me. But knowing that now, I expect him, as a respected seller and member of this community, to do everything in his power to stamp out this fraud. I have asked for him to refund my money. Also, Peter and I, and I hope the Audiogon community, want to know where Kiso bought these cables. Can he lead us to the source of this fraud that is hurting the audio community? Neither of us are interested in damaging the credibility of honest audiophiles who have been victims of these scammers, only helping to educate them to stop this practice. Whoever sold Kiso these cables certainly owes him a refund also.
As far as Kiso's argument that positive feedback rules out the need to send a refund, as Audiogon knows unfortunately I also bought what I thought was an Audionote 3.0 SPX from another seller that also turned out to be a fake. By the time I found out it was fake, I had already resold it to a happy buyer who gave me positive feedback and even said it sounded great. Nevertheless, I must go back to him, tell him the truth and refund his money. The party (in U.S.) who sold those cables to me said they are meeting with the people (also in Singapore) they received them from shortly and will get back to me. The only right thing to do in both these cases is for every party who sold illegal products to refund those who bought them and to reveal the source of where they got them.
Unless Kiso can somehow prove to both me and the owner of AudioNote that these were in fact AudioNote cables, a full refund of $1185 is in order.
Glory's proposed resolution:
A full refund to buyer and reveal to Peter Qvortrup and Audiogon the source where seller received this cable.
Kiso's rebuttal:
i have been an audiogoner for a couple of years as an audiophile and at the same time purchasing from local shops as well as private sellers who publish and sell their items at local hifi websites
through this i have purchased the audionote cables but due to a change in equipment to mono blocks , i decided to sell and post at audiogon.they were informed by the private seller that is genuine and i have never seen an audionote spx in my life before purchasing it
gary responded the advertisement and i gave him my best rates and send to him.
upon recieving , gary did mentioned that he wants to check the cables and was happy with the "genuine cables "" he purchased. i was very happy for satisfied cutomer especially i am also very cautious not to commit any unwarranted issues as it would lead to negative feedback and bad reputation though this is not my 'bread and butter ' business.
its all for the love of hifi and many times i will sell at 20 to 40 percent loss for a product that i purchased and thereafter reselling it. for this particular model of audionote i paid usd 1500 for it
in all my transactions i will normally give the buyer a 30 days trial and seek genuinity in my products that i sold.
in this particular incident, i have reconfirmation that the product were real.as it is after the warranty period given , i will not be liable for the items purchased as they were all used products
how stupid and ignorant can one be , be it singapore or anypart of the world to read the lines and further "putting a dagger behind the cloak"". he recieved the items and seek further clarification from his cathoods and later came back to inform me that its ''real'' . with further stating on feedback.
but to a laymen on the street, he cunningly crated the words for misintepretation. ridiculous !
the nature of his complaint shock me and being matured enough will naturally find time to investigate into the allegation as i am very busy with my current business not relating to hifi.
gary "s first alleged e-mail ....RUDE AND THREATENING !!!!!
quote
I would like my $1185.00 back or I will report you to Audiogon and have you removed from their site.
unquote
gary "s second email
quote
AudioGon will allow me to give you a negative feedback in this manner. This is fact. I would rather deal with this as best we can without putting a blemish on your record with a "e-mail me for more info" in the negative feedback.
unquote
third party
he further enhace his stand by putting a third party into the deal whereby i have only dealt with him . the transaction is done between two private party .it is up to the third party to do whatever he feels it is neceesary
claims from my other party
it is not possible for me to contact the seller which have sold me as i do not keep the contact after purchase
procedures for claims by gary
1. i will like to seek a written note given to him from audio note usa , audio note uk and japan that the cables are "fake " that i sold him.
in this manner , i will be throughly satisfied with his claims. i cannot accept his words as it affect my credibility and standing {especially his threatening words on the two e-mails can be very damaging
2. cables conditions
as the nature of his complaint is unique especially after so long. and if refund is inevitable , i will want the cables be send back in the original condition that i have send him,
why cut it without informing me
3. refunds
i find it impossible to contact the seller who sold me. if upon recieving it within one month , i had the oppurtunity to contact the seller giving me a chance to get even with the seller . now passing almost four months , my chances are nil.
gary had the opportunity to check carefully with his cathoods and i will act immediately within a reasonable time frame
its liken he feels that if he purchase anything, whether tangible or intangible items , the seller is reponsible for life
liabilty
i will like to put gary partially responsible for not informing me earlier .....i will have total loss of not usd 1185 but usd 1500 from the first purchased, not forgetting the express service i entertained my clients for shipping
therefore gary after using a product for four months, damaging without my approval , using threatening words on alleging that i cheated him shall bear half of the responsibity for my loss that should be alerted earlier to me , giving me adequate time to approach the seller
As of 10-31-2006, Audiogon is requesting input from members regarding this dispute. |
