Problem: Seller reports problem with sale
05-22-2002: Stealth93es initiated process
05-23-2002: Tekunda submitted response
Stealth93es describes the events as follows:
Fed-X package April 22, 2002 to Present.
Copy of my letter in package and e-mail:
Hi Christian,
Update on Valhalla's:
They should arrive at your location tomorrow morning. I sent them overnight Priority.
1 Set Nordost Valhalla XLR 1.5 meter Cables $ 2,200.00 + shipping.
The shipping charges for 2.5 lbs are just over $50.00 I rounded it off to $50.00.
TOTAL PURCHASE PRICE INCLUDING SHIPPING TO YOU: $ 2,250.00
Please have your friend wire transfer the amount to me AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
My Wire Information and My Bank Information is as follows:
J Michael Starling
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX
My Phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
STATE EMPLOYEES' CREDIT UNION
RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA
CODE: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
If you need any additional information just let me know. I hope your friend likes the cables.
Thanks,
Michael
As you can read the terms and conditions of this sale were very clear and straightforward. I was to receive a wire transfer on Monday April 27, 2002. I received no communication. Friday April 31, 2002 I received an e-mail telling me that after a week of auditioning the cables his friend did not want to purchase them. I was very frustrated with this situation and I asked that my Valhalla Cables be returned to me. I have been given all kinds of excuses and run around for a month now. I have received no payment and my requests for the return of cables have been ignored. I send an e-mail demanding that my cables or payment be forwarded immediately. I got the following e-mail in return:
===========================================================
Sir,
You have ordered a pair of HMS cables almost two month ago. Only a week
later you came back very excited to let me know that you are going to
keep the HMS Grand Finale cables, since they are so much better than
your Valhalla and Jena Labs. (I have the emails)
My ad clearly states that the audition period is 30 days. This audition
period is long over and in several emails I habe been asking for
payment.
You have never paid the cables and the audition period is long over.
You have send me your Valhalla cables, to sell them for you to come up
with money.
I was lucky to finally be able to sell the Valhalla cables yesterday.
So I cannot return the cables anymore.
Since you owe me $2000 for the HMS Grand Finale cables and I was only
able to get $2000, we are more than even, since I cannot take back a
pair of used cables. The deal was clear: 30 days audition period and
then return the cables or by them.
I am extremely disappointed by your letter, since you have shown your
real face now. I think that had it not been for the Valhalla, you would
have never paid me. It was you intention all along to talk me out of my
HMS cables.
God Bless Michael,
Christian
-----Original Message-----
From: . . [mailto:stealth93es@hotmail.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 22. Mai 2002 05:24
To: chbrouwer@earthlink.net
Subject: Valhalla Cables, Request for Help
Hi Christian, (Audiogon Member: Tekunda)
RE: Please Help.
As you read below I sent you my "New Pair" of Nordost Valhalla 1.5 meter
XLR
cables, on April 22, 2002. The terms of sale were outlined and the
method of
payment given. The terms and conditions of this sale have not been met.
The
elapsed time is now One month.
As a matter of good business, I must request that the cables be return
and a
tracking number forwarded to me within 24 hours. I will still accept the
payment of $ 2,250.00 in Lou of the cables. In either case, I must
respectfully request immediate payment or the cables be in route to me
within the next 24 hours.
Upon receiving the Valhalla cables or payment, I will immediately return
the
HMS cables you sent me for audition. Thanks for the opportunity to
listen to
them.
I wish you the best with your future sales of the HMS product. I think
it is
a good cable line and I wish you the best with it.
Your Immediate Attention to this Matter will be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Michael Starling
Audiogon Member: Stealth93es
P.S.
You have my phone number, mailing address, and all of my banking
information.
The HMS cable purchase that Tekunda is referring to was an audition pair that he sent along with a CD Player he sent me to audition. I would have returned them at any time, upon his request. I got an email from Tekunda telling me that the CD Player was sold to another buyer before I ever received it. He was including the Cable with the purchase of the CD player. I shipped the CD player directly to the purchaser without the HMS cable, as he instructed.
Tekunda, at that time solicited me to assist him in the sell of his HMS products telling me that if I had 10 referrals that purchased cables that he would give me the pair I had. I told him then and in many telephone conversations that I would return the cable at his direction. He insisted that I keep it so I could evaluate it and report to others my findings, which I did. I spent many hours of my time doing as he requested. Check my many postings on Audiogon and Audio Asylam.
“I NEVER PURCHASED, NOR DID I SUGGEST THAT I WOULD PURCHASE THE HMS CABLE IN ANY METHOD OTHER THAN REFERALS.
The transaction of my Nordost Valhalla Cable never was or has been a factor in the purchase of his Cable. I have been requesting that my cable be returned and that I would in Return send Tekunda his HMS cable. Even if the situation were as he suggest I have requested for a month that my cable be returned and I would return his cable. My first contact with Tekunda, which I can verify with my e-mail, was April 5th 2002. If the situation is as he suggest that I was purchasing the HMS cable I have a copy of an e-mail dated April 31.2002 requesting the return of cables and that I would return his as soon as I received them. This is well within the 30 day period that he refers to.
The fact that he suggests that on his own accord he sold my cables which retail for $3,960.00 for $2,000.00 without my consent and then to suggest that his HMS cables be exchanged for full retail at $2,000.00 is unbelievable.
Simply put using his own information: if what he says is true, which it is NOT!! The return request of my cables and the fact that I told him I would return his cable when I received them. If I had returned them before receiving my cables I would be out those cables and shipping too.
He also owes me $75.29 for shipping on the CD that I shipped for him. He has ignored my request for payment on that as well. I sent that out on my Fed-x account on April 16, 2002.
This situation is not a misunderstanding, it is out right FRAUD!!!
This situation is figment of Tekunda’s imagination, I think he sold my cables and spent the money. Now he can’t pay me. So has fabricated this situation. There are too many things here that too easy to verify. His intentions are clearly dishonorable!
Resolution Requested: The return of Nordost Valhalla Cables, If he has sold them as he states he owes me the original $2,250.00 plus the shipping on his CD player of $75.29.
Total: $2,325.29. I will return his HMS cables when I am paid.
I have no idea that I will ever get my cables or my money. I think the Audiogon Community Needs to know what kind of person they are dealing with here.
Michael Starling
Stealth93es is requesting the following resultion:
That I receive payment of $2,250.00 for my cables as our agreement states plus the $75.29 shipping for the CD player.
That the HMS cables be returned to Tekunda.
The fact that he suggest that he take my cables at wholsale and give me his for full retail and forget the additional $325.29 is unbelivable.
Tekunda describes the events as follows:
Around the first week in April I had two ads running, one for a Eletcrocompaniet CDP and one for a HMS XLR cable. Mr. Starling emailed and showed interest in both products, but wanted to audition both products before committing to a purchase. Since I had the impression that Mr. Starling was a man of integrity, I sent him both products without a deposit.
Concerning the shipping cost we agreed that I would pay the shipping costs to him and he would pay the shipping back to me, or to another person, who also wanted to buy the player in case Mr. Starling did not want to keep it.
A few days later Mr. Starling called and told me he is short on cash and cannot keep the player this time. So I asked him to send the player to the other interested buyer and since we had an agreement on the shipping costs, it was clear that he had to pay it. This answers his first accusation.
Around a week later, he called again and told me that the HMS cables were the best he ever auditioned, far better than his Valhalla cables, and he said I wants to buy my cables, but because of his cash problems he needs to sell the Valhalla cables first before he can pay me (check his old Audiogon ads) and besides that, he made following proposal: He told me that he knew so many audiophiles, which he could refer to me that I would easily sell a dozen cables within two weeks. So wee agreed upon a rebate of 50% if I would indeed sell this many cables within such a short period of time. Well, after two weeks not having sold one cable, I felt that Mr. Starling far exaggerated his claims and I approached him and made him aware that the audition time of 30 days is soon over and that he either needs to purchase my cables for the full retail price now -since I had not sold one cable due to Mr. Starlings supposed referrals- or return my cables. Since he had not sold his Valhalla cables yet, which meant that he did not have the funds to purchase my cables, he again made following suggestion: Couldn't I take his Valhalla cables as a trade-in against the HMS? He again told me how excited he was about the performance, which was far superior to his Valhalla (btw. he posted this claims about the far superior performance of the HMS cables in public at the Audiogon cable forum) He knew that I had plans to go to Germany to the High-end show in Frankfurt and claimed that the Valhalla would easily fetch $2000 and more in Europe. But it was clear that we never agreed I would owe him anything, if I was to fetch more than $2000 for the cables. It was a straightforward deal: Valhalla cables vs. HMS cables.
So we agreed amiable that by sending me the Valhalla cables, he has purchased my HMS cables. That was a legal deal. He gave up his rights to the Valhalla and I my rights to the HMS.
I indeed was able to sell the Valhalla cables eventually for EUR 2100, which is around $2000 and for me the story was over. Yesterday though, almost eight weeks after Mr. Starling received my HMS cables for audition, I got an email from Mr. Starling, demanding that I send him the cables or the money, since he wants to return my cables. I told him that this is not possible, since we had a deal and besides, the audition period, even with a grace period of a reasonable time, was long over. He started to threaten me in dozens!!! of emails, that he would do anything to ruin my reputation, if I would not give in to his demands and he not only threatened me, but he started to send out dozens of emails to audiophiles and the AA forum, calling me a liar and a thief. People he sent his accusations to, have approached me, wanting to know what is going on. So I know that Mr. Starling fulfilled his threats. I told Mr. Starling again and again yesterday, that we had a deal, that I have received his Valhalla from him voluntarily as a trade-in to cover the retail price of $2000 for the HMS XLR cables and that the audition period was long over, even with a reasonable grace period.
Tekunda's proposed resolution:
Since Mr. Starling and I had a clear deal and we both have agreed on the terms of this deal, Valhalla cables versus HMS cables, no further action is necessary. Mr. Starling has to learn that such a deal is legally binding and should lay the matter to rest. But threatening me, if I do not give in to his demands and trying to ruin my reputation, by sending out, I do not know how many emails, claiming I am a thief, is not an acceptable behaviour in the audiophile community and I ask the Audiogon stuff to please remove the last of the three negative feedbacks, Mr. Starling gave me in a row yesterday.
Stealth93es's rebuttal:
Stealth93es Rebuttal:
I will make an effort to respond to each point of Tekunda’s Responses within the context of his e-mails. I will number each Rebuttal of each item in his response. I will support information contained herein with copies and excerpts from my e-mail communications with Tekunda. I will give the Audiogon Staff access to “all” the e-mail correspondence. I am currently setting up a site for this purpose. All e-mails will be complete in the form I sent or received them on this site.
Tekunda's Response
Tekunda's Description of the events:
Around the first week in April I had two ads running, one for a Eletcrocompaniet CDP and one for a HMS XLR cable. Mr. Starling emailed and showed interest in both products, but wanted to audition both products before committing to a purchase. Since I had the impression that Mr. Starling was a man of integrity, I sent him both products without a deposit.
1. 4/5/2002 I contacted Tekunda by e-mail inquiring about his CD player. He offered without my request, to let me audition it. He insisted that I audition it with his HMS cables. I agreed to audition the CD player and review the HMS cable. I did this at his request, not mine. He explained that he wanted me to do the review of the HMS cable since I owned the Valhalla and Jena cables.
2. The CD player and cable were shipped Monday 4/8/2002.
3. I received an e-mail on 4/9/2002 telling me that he had an offer of $3,000 for the CD player. He stated in the same e-mail to take my time to audition it and his cable. He also wrote that he would forward the shipping information for his buyer.
4. I received the CD player and cable on 4/10/2002 note this date is when I received the HMS cable.
Concerning the shipping cost we agreed that I would pay the shipping costs to him and he would pay the shipping back to me, or to another person, who also wanted to buy the player in case Mr. Starling did not want to keep it.
5. Tekunda never mentioned me paying any shipping to or from me. I have on file several
E-mails with his instructions for shipment to his buyer. He stated in the e-mails to send the package and he would reimburse me. The shipping cost overnight was $75.29. He also stated in several e-mails that he would send me an additional cable to review and post my findings on the AA site & Audiogon. I accepted the cables for review not purchase. Again this is verified many times in the e-mails. I even posted my findings on the AA and Audiogon; the responses were like a WAR! I had no idea that Tekunda had such a questionable reputation on AA and Audiogon. The posts speak for themselves.
A few days later Mr. Starling called and told me he is short on cash and cannot keep the player this time.
6. Simply put, this communication never occurred. I challenge Tekunda to present copies
Of any e-mail from me that ever at any time addressed this situation. It simple did not happen. I have copies of all e-mails telling me to ship it to: (name and address on file) I shipped the CD player on 4/16/2002
So I asked him to send the player to the other interested buyer and since we had an agreement on the shipping costs, it was clear that he had to pay it. This answers his first accusation.
7. I have on file e-mails telling me to ship and pre pay the shipping on my Fed-X account ant to let him know how much and he would include the check with the second pair of HMS cables he wanted me to review. Again I have on file several e-mails with all the instructions and information that I am reporting here and now.
Around a week later, he called again and told me that the HMS cables were the best he ever auditioned, far better than his Valhalla cables,
8. This is a non-issue.
And he said I want to buy my cables, but because of his cash problems he needs to sell the Valhalla cables first before he can pay me (check his old Audiogon ads)
9. My Nordost Valhalla Cables were for sale before I ever met Tekunda, check my add dates. This conversation never took place. Again, let Tekunda produce one single e-mail addressing these facts. It does not exist.
10. I have a copy of the e-mail where he tells me of his buyer in Germany and that he is willing to pay $2,200.00 plus shipping to Tekunda in Florida.
And besides that, he made following proposal: He told me that he knew so many audiophiles, which he could refer to me that I would easily sell a dozen cables within two weeks. So wee agreed upon a rebate of 50% if I would indeed sell this many cables within such a short period of time. Well, after two weeks not having sold one cable, I felt that Mr. Starling far exaggerated his claims and
11. Tekunda ask me to assist him in the marketing of his cables. This is not an uncommon practice for him.
12. It was not until Tekunda e-mailed that his friend in Germany was not going to pay for the cables and I requested that he return them to me immediately and that I would return the pair of HMS cables as soon as I received them.
13. Copy of actual e-mails: PLEASE NOTE THE DATE
==============================================================
From: "Christian Brouwer" brouwer@web.de
To: "'. .'" stealth93es@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: FED X TRACKING # CORRECTION
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:23:49 +0200
Dear Micheal,
I hope you have received my email dating back to last Tuesday.
I am almost too embarrassed to tell you that my friend has finally
decided to not buy the cables. (after two more days of auditioning)
According to him, the performance does not justify the price. (by that
he does not mean your price, but the price of this cable in general and
he feels that Nordost completely overpriced the cables)
He had expected a heavenly sound, but I admit, in his system the cables
sounded thin. So other then taking him to court on his broken promise,
there is not much I can force him to buy the cables.
I have already put the cables up for sale in a German hi-fi magazine and
I am very positive that I will sell the cables very quick. Please give
me two weeks and let us see what will happen.
I also told you that Mr. Strassner had asked me not to sell any of the
last Grand Finale cables, he discovered a flaw in one of the components.
So I have not advised the shipping company I work with to send out your
cables just yet, but I have a few HMS Grand Finale shipped to the US
after the Hi fi show in Germany and you will be the first to get the new
cables.
Btw, XXXX XXXXX has decided to send the cables back. Didn't he buy the
cables because of your recommendation? Please talk to him again, he has
hardly given the cables enough time to break in. They need at least
another 100 hours.
I hope to hear from you soon,
Christian
15.Tekonda states that he says he did not get any sales, here he is complaining about them.
16. Copy of my Invoice to Tekunda for the Valhalla cables:
Hi Christian,
Update on Valhalla's:
They should arrive at your location tomorrow morning. I sent them overnight Priority.
1 Set Nordost Valhalla XLR 1.5 meter Cables $ 2,200.00 + shipping and insurance.
The shipping charges for 2.5 lbs are just over $50.00 I rounded it off to $50.00.
TOTAL PURCHASE PRICE INCLUDING SHIPPING TO YOU: $ 2,250.00
Please have your friend wire transfer that amount to me AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
MY RESPONSE TO CHRISTIAN:
Hi Christian,
I must say that I am very upset with your friend. I sent you the cables overnight at my expense which he agreed to pay. Now it sounds like he doesn't want to pay anything. I did not send a New set of Nordost Valhalla's for evaluation. I send them with no payment on the promise that my funds would be wired AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. As it now stands I have neither my cables or my money. I am quite upset about this situation. I have always done everything exactly as I told you I would. Now I have a real problem !!!
As for the set of HMS RCA cables, I was supposed to have those two weeks ago, along with the shipping charges on the Electrocompaniet CD Player. To date I have received neither. I never received any information or communication about Mr. Strassner putting a hold on cable shipments. I would appreciate very much if would get a pair from him direct & send those along with a Money Order for the shipping $75.29, for the CD Player, and my pair of Nordost Valhalla cables. I have someone here ready to purchase them.
I have trusted you completely to follow through with what you have told me. I would feel much more comfortable if I received the HMS cables, my check for $ 75.29 and my Valhalla cables AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I have no interest in selling them weeks from now. I have made financial commitments here based on the sale and payment of my cables by the first of May. If there are no HMS cables available, PLEASE FORWARD MY NORDOST VALHALLA ALONG WITH THE $ 75.29 IMMEDIATELY.
I trust that you will comply with my request.
Regards,
Michael Starling
=========================================================
I approached him and made him aware that the audition time of 30 days is soon over and that he either needs to purchase my cables for the full retail price now -since I had not sold one cable due to Mr. Starlings supposed referrals- or return my cables.
17. This never occurred. If so where is one single e-mail to me in Reference to this situation. Simply this did not occur.
18. At this point using Tekunda information I received the cables on 4/10/2002 and now on 5/2/2002 he is telling me that the sale is defunct. See my e-mail; send my cables or the money.
19. Note he acknowledges that he was supposed to send a second HMS cable for review, along with my check for the shipping charges on the CD player.
Since he had not sold his Valhalla cables yet, which meant that he did not have the funds to purchase my cables, he again made following suggestion: Couldn't I take his Valhalla cables as a trade-in against the HMS?
20. This conversation never took place; Tekunda was in Germany the only mode of communication was e-mail. Again show me one e-mail that was sent to me and received in my e-mail account. It simply does not exist.
He again told me how excited he was about the performance, which was far superior to his Valhalla (btw. he posted this claims about the far superior performance of the HMS cables in public at the Audiogon cable forum)
19. My review of the cables is a non-issue.
He knew that I had plans to go to Germany to the High-end show in Frankfurt and claimed that the Valhalla would easily fetch $2000 and more in Europe. But it was clear that we never agreed I would owe him anything, if I was to fetch more than $2000 for the cables. It was a straightforward deal: Valhalla cables vs. HMS cables.
20. Please read my invoice, which I e-mailed and was, also packed in the shipment with the Valhalla cables. As far as me giving him my Valhalla cables even trade for his HMS cables is unbelievable. I never solicited Tekunda to assist me in selling my Valhalla cables. He pursed me intensely. I have several e-mails supporting this FACT.
So we agreed amiable that by sending me the Valhalla cables, he has purchased my HMS cables.
21. This did not occur; I never agreed to exchange a $3,960.00 New Nordost Valhalla cable even for a cable costing $1,990.00. Anyone that knows anything about audio and cabling knows this is absurd!
That was a legal deal. He gave up his rights to the Valhalla and I my rights to the HMS.
22. I gave up nothing. He just thinks he can take what he wants by intimidation.
I indeed was able to sell the Valhalla cables eventually for EUR 2100, which is around $2000 and for me the story was over.
23. He says he sold my cables. If that is true I never agreed to a reduced price or sale. He just decided that is what he wanted to do and now reports if I don’t like it that is too bad.
Yesterday though, almost eight weeks after Mr. Starling received my HMS cables for audition, I got an email from Mr. Starling, demanding that I send him the cables or the money, since he wants to return my cables.
22. I received the HMS cables on 4/10/2002 I asked for the return of my Valhalla cables on 5/2/2002, Saturday 5/4/2002 I again requested the return of my Valhalla cables and that I would return the Audition HMS cables as soon as I received them.
23. Using Tekunda own information and dates, at that point I had only had possession of the HMS cables from 4/10/2002 until 5/04/2002, a period of 15 days. All of these dates and information are verified with e-mails. So his 30-Day Defense Just doesn’t hold water.
23.This a copy of my e-mail to Tekunda dated 5/22/2002:
Hi Christian, (Audiogon Member: Tekunda)
RE: Please Help.
As you read below I sent you my "New Pair" of Nordost Valhalla 1.5 meter XLR cables, on April 22, 2002. The terms of sale were outlined and the method of payment given. The terms and conditions of this sale have not been met. The elapsed time is now One month.
As a matter of good business, I must request that the cables be return and a tracking number forwarded to me within 24 hours. I will still accept the payment of $ 2,250.00 in Lou of the cables. In either case, I must respectfully request immediate payment or the cables are in route to me within the next 24 hours.
Upon receiving the Valhalla cables or payment, I will immediately return the HMS cables you sent me for audition. Thanks for the opportunity to listen to them.
I wish you the best with your future sales of the HMS product. I think it is a good cable line and I wish you the best with it.
Your Immediate Attention to this Matter will be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Michael Starling
Audiogon Member: Stealth93es
P.S.
You have my phone number, mailing address, and all of my banking information.
I told him that this is not possible, since we had a deal and besides, the audition period, even with a grace period of a reasonable time, was long over. He started to threaten me in dozens!!! Of emails, that he would do anything to ruin my reputation, if I would not give in to his demands and he not only threatened me, but he started to send out dozens of emails to audiophiles and the AA forum, calling me a liar and a thief. People he sent his accusations to, have approached me, wanting to know what is going on. So I know that Mr. Starling fulfilled his threats. I told Mr. Starling again and again yesterday, that we had a deal, that I have received his Valhalla from him voluntarily as a trade-in to cover the retail price of $2000 for the HMS XLR cables and that the audition period was long over, even with a reasonable grace period.
Tekunda's Response to proposal:
Since Mr. Starling and I had a clear deal and we both have agreed on the terms of this deal, Valhalla cables versus HMS cables, no further action is necessary. Mr. Starling has to learn that such a deal is legally binding and should lay the matter to rest. But threatening me, if I do not give in to his demands and trying to ruin my reputation, by sending out, I do not know how many emails, claiming I am a thief, is not an acceptable behaviour in the audiophile community and I ask the Audiogon stuff to please remove the last of the three negative feedbacks, Mr. Starling gave me in a row yesterday.
24.In doing all my research I discovered the following Composite E-Mails. SIMPLY PUT, THIS SAYS IT ALL. I JUST WISH I HAD LOCATED IT SOONER. AND NOW HERE IS THE STORY IN A NUTSHELL.
This is a complete and exact copy of the e-mail: Please note dates
==================================================
Stealth93es Writes
Hi Christian,
I will make an attempt to address each of your points or concerns “One at a time”
I have written my Answers for your points of view:
Tekunda Writes
From: "Christian Brouwer" brouwer@web.de
To: "'. .'" stealth93es@hotmail.com
Subject: I am embarrassed
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:19:51 +0200
I am embarrassed
Hello Michael,
Somehow this email of yours went into the wrong folder, so I only had a
Chance to read after I wrote my last email.
I feel very much humiliated by the tone of your email. It almost sound
Like I have tried to not follow up with my promise to try to sell the
Cables.
“Straight talk”
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
You told me that your friend in Germany wanted to purchase my Valhalla cables. We agreed on the price. I was to send you the cables and he was to wire me the payment when you delivered the cables. This was to be a very simple and straightforward transaction.
I did not intend to send your friend cables with no payment for audition, only to have him to decide that he did not want them.
I even questioned why he wanted those instead of the HMS cables. You told me that he wanted the Valhalla cables instead. This was not carried out the way we discussed.
Tekunda Writes
So this email of yours will give me the chance to discuss a few
Things in “straight talk”.
I will not wine here about me putting trust in you first, by sending you
an expensive cd-player and cables without knowing you in person. I think
I have more than shown that I deserve trust. If you think that this is
usual business, that strangers trust you with thousands of dollars like
I did, we do not even need to discuss further.
But as soon as something is going wrong on my part, you treat me with
disrespect.
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
My intentions had no malice, I simply expressed my disappointment that this transaction has not gone according to our conversations. That is a statement of fact not one of accusation.
Tekunda Writes
You are always complaining that you are out the money for shipping,
money for the Valhalla, that you are in a tough situation etc. I think
you have overlooked a simple fact that you have a $2000 XLR HMS cable,
which I have paid in full to HMS and have not seen a cent yet.
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
You told me to ship the CD player prepaid and that you would collect the shipping charges from the purchaser. I complied with your request. My reimbursement has not come, again a statement of fact, not accusation.
Yes you did send me the CD player and a pair of cables. I have since sent the CD player to your purchaser, exactly as I said I would. The $2,000.00 pair of HMS is at retail. You have my Valhalla cables witch list for $3,900.00, twice the retail value of the HMS.
Tekunda Writes
Please do not think that because I sell HMS, I have become a millionaire
overnight and can give away cables for free. I know we kind of discussed
that you will pay the HMS cables by helping me sell more cables, so I
waited to see how things will go. But since I told you that the HMS
profit margins are not really huge, it would mean at least 10 pairs of
the interconnects and since we last talked I have not sold one pair and
the only customer you send me,
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
I worked one weekend ago two days about 14 hours a day trying to resolve the situation on AA, and Audiogon. I have sent you copies of several referrals. I have made many efforts to support you and your product.
Tekunda Writes
XXXX, is asking for a refund. So
according to the sales right now it could easily take a year for you to
come up with ten customers. (please note the number 10)
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
I called XXXX today to inquire what his feelings were regarding the HMS cable. Honestly his comments were positive. (XXXX is a dealer). He has decided to take on another line that could better meet his current marketing plan.
Tekunda Writes
Since you had a pretty straightforward tone in your email, I will be
straightforward too and we have a proverb: A written agreement saves a
good friendship.
Since a lot of money is at stake here for both of us, if I would sent
you the HMS interconnect the total would climb to $3000 and you are out
the shipping moneys plus the Valhalla. So we need to get this mess
straightened out, so neither of us feels bad about the deal and we both
can save our faces and hopefully our friendship.
(Note: Notice he does not refer to any trade)
Not only from this experience, but from another almost similar
experience, I learned that agreements, like we had, are much too vague,
if so much money is at stake. We need to agree on comprehensible terms,
how to handle this whole business, otherwise we are behaving stupid and
naďve and we open the door for discussions and disagreements. The terms
on which we both will deal in the future must be unambiguous for both of
us, so that we can comply with our arrangement, without getting into
fights.
I will give you the chance to reply first with a proposal, on how we can
get out of this financial mess we are in, without ruining our business
relationship and our friendship.
(Again Note that is no reference to all the conversations he says took place or agreements)
almost like I am a thief, but you do not hesitate to ask for a further
shipment of HMS cables, that I will raise my voice too and dare to ask:
“what about my money I am out”? I told you many times that every one of
the cables had to be prepaid and since we had talked, not one further
sale was accomplished through your recommendations. When we talked you
gave me the impression that it will be a matter of a few weeks that I
will have sold so many cables due to your recommendations, that you can
keep the HMS XLR and RCA cables for free. In hindsight it looks a bit
different now, so I guess I have the same right you have and worry about
the money I am out.
Best regards,
Christian
Stealth93es Writes
My answer
Christian,
I have only asked for what we mutually agreed on. You did send the CD player and the cable. To the best of my knowledge I have done everything I have agreed to do, as well as comply with each of your requests. I have done each thing exactly as I said I would, without exception.
Now, as for the transaction s on the HMS cables. I told you that I would help you and I think I have made every possible effort I can to do that. I also told you that I needed an additional pair of HMS cables to audition with the ones I already had. I requested this because I wanted to represent the truth on the Internet, which I told you of my concerns. “I have no problem with not getting that cable”. I was just trying to help your marketing effort. You told me that you would send it two weeks ago.
Now as for the shipping charges on the CD player, you told me to prepay them and that you would send them two weeks ago with the cables. You never sent anything.
Tekunda Writes
But please understand that if you take it so personal and if you insist
in capital letters, that I have to send the Vallhalla back immediately,
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer:
Now, about my Valhalla cables, my intention has always been to sell them. I needed the funds to meet other obligations. I have no interest in trading them for HMS or marketing them a month from now. I agreed to a simple sale, nothing more.
Tekunda Writes
PS
And please understand that I get a little suspicious, if you promise me
to grab every chance to write something positive about HMS and then you
do not even mention that fact in your speaker post, that you own and use
HMS cables in your system, (which would be the truth) like HMS has to
hidden under the table.
That doesn’t look like a great support.
Stealth93es Writes
My Answer
A copy of my thread:
Has anyone tried the Kharma Ceramic 1.0 speaker with the Atma Sphere MA 1 Mk II.2.
I will be using an Audio Aero CD Player with Jenna cables. Synergistic Resolution Reference speaker cables.
I am looking for a good match for my speakers.
Thanks in advance for you replies.
by Stealth93es on 04-30-02
The recommendation from the dealer I am getting my audio aero CD player from recommended that I try the Jena cable first, then the HMS. I have reported to him that I really liked the HMS. That is why I posted the question with his recommendation. No ulterior motive here at all.
Stealth93es Writes
-----Original Message-----
From: . . [mailto:stealth93es@hotmail.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 2. Mai 2002 20:06
To: brouwer@web.de
Subject: RE: FED X TRACKING # CORRECTION
Hi Christian,
I must say that I am very upset with your friend. I sent you the cables
overnight at my expense which he agreed to pay. Now it sounds like he
doesn't want to pay anything. I did not send a New set of Nordost
Valhalla's
for evaluation. I send them with no payment on the promise that my funds
would be wired AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. As it now stands I have neither my
cables or my money. I am quite upset about this situation. I have always
done everything exactly as I told you I would. Now I have a real problem
!!!
As for the set of HMS RCA cables, I was supposed to have those two weeks
ago, along with the shipping charges on the Electrocompaniet CD Player.
To
date I have received neither. I never received any information or
communication about Mr. Strassner putting a hold on cable shipments. I
would
appreciate very much if would get a pair from him direct & send those
along
with a Money Order for the shipping $75.29, for the CD Player, and my
pair
of Nordost Valhalla cables. I have someone here ready to purchase them.
I have trusted you completely to follow through with what you have told
me.
I would feel much more comfortable if I received the HMS cables, my
check
for $ 75.29 and my Valhalla cables AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I have no
interest
in selling them weeks from now. I have made financial commitments here
based
on the sale and payment of my cables by the first of May. If there are
no
HMS cables available, PLEASE FORWARD MY NORDOST VALHALLA ALONG WITH THE
$
75.29 IMMEDIATELY.
I trust that you will comply with my request.
Regards,
Michael Starling
Tekunda Writes
From: "Christian Brouwer" brouwer@web.de
To: "'. .'" stealth93es@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: FED X TRACKING # CORRECTION
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:23:49 +0200
Dear Micheal,
I hope you have received my email dating back to last Tuesday.
I am almost too embarrassed to tell you that my friend has finally
decided to not buy the cables. (after two more days of auditioning)
According to him, the performance does not justify the price. (by that
he does not mean your price, but the price of this cable in general and
he feels that Nordost completely overpriced the cables)
He had expected a heavenly sound, but I admit, in his system the cables
sounded thin. So other then taking him to court on his broken promise,
there is not much I can force him to buy the cables.
I have already put the cables up for sale in a German hi-fi magazine
and
I am very positive that I will sell the cables very quick. Please give
me two weeks and let us see what will happen.
I also told you that Mr. Strassner had asked me not to sell any of the
last Grand Finale cables, he discovered a flaw in one of the
components.
So I have not advised the shipping company I work with to send out your
cables just yet, but I have a few HMS Grand Finale shipped to the US
after the Hi fi show in Germany and you will be the first to get the
new
cables.
Btw, XXXX XXXXX has decided to send the cables back. Didn't he buy the
cables because of your recommendation? Please talk to him again, he has
hardly given the cables enough time to break in. They need at least
another 100 hours.
I hope to hear from you soon,
Ř Christian
Stealth93es Writes
Now for some resolution:
Christian,
I have no desire to have any disagreement with you. I have made every effort to help you and to promote the sale of the HMS cable line. I have no desire to dissolve our friendship. I hear your points on your trust and can assure you that if I had any question about that, I would have never trusted you with my Valhalla cables in the first place.
I only ask that you understand that those cables represent a significant amount of money for me. I live on my Social Security income, which is only about $ 724.00 per month. The money I have had available for audio comes from an insurance claim of last year when I lost my entire system to a lightning strike. I tell you this so you can understand my position better.
If you would be so kind as to return the Valhalla cables or the payment of $ 2,200.00 plus the $ 75.29 it would help me so much. I have a buyer here for the cables; I just need to sell them.
I am more than willing to continue to try to help you with the HMS cables. ”If you feel more comfortable with me returning them to you”, I have no problem with that either. I will forward them shipping prepaid to whatever address you tell me.
As a friend I ask you to consider the following, each item you have ask me to do I have complied with in a timely fashion. Sending the CD player, helping on the Internet many times and sending referrals.
Now on the other hand,
You told me that you would send me another set of cables to help marker your products. (Two weeks ago) “You haven’t done that”
You told me that you would send me a check for $ 75.29 (two weeks ago) you haven’t done that.
You told me that you had my Valhalla cables SOLD and that I could sent them to you for delivery in Germany and that you would have your friend wire me the money. (I should have gotten that a week ago) You haven’t done that.
In summation, it seems to me that I have done everything I was supposed to do exactly when I should and that I have been quite patient and trusting for you to do what you told me you would. I have every confidence that you will not let me down now. "I Do Trust You".
Christian, I am not trying to be difficult to work with here. I simply want you to have what is yours and for me to have what is mine. After giving this matter quite a bit of thought, I think that is a fair request. I understand that your friend’s decision is not something you can control. Just like I can’t control XXXXX decision. May I simply suggest that we get back to a zero balance, stay good friends, and then make a new marketing plan. I am not angry with you. I just need to get this matter resolved.
I know many Dealers, Manufactures and individuals involved in this industry in the United States. I will still make every effort to help you. I have lots of time (I am retired) so I can spend many hours on the Internet in an effort to help you.
I trust that all these matters can be resolved soon and we can move on to the job of Marketing the HMS cable line.
Your Friend,
Michael
P.S. I hope you are having fun at the show. You will have to tell me all about it!
end of e-mail
========================================================
Summary
There two very important points here and that is the definition of two words.
Audition
As it relates to audio, this is when we try something we want to purchase before we purchase it.
Review
As it relates to audio, to examine and report the findings of that examination.
With these two definitions, I can tell you that I agreed to Review the HMS cable and report my findings as it compared directly to my Valhalla and Jenna Cables. I did this and posted my findings. This was not an audition for purchase, it was simply a review to compare all the cables at Tekunda’s request.
Now it would seem that Tekunda is trying to change the premise that he sent me the HMS cable from a Review to an Audition for purchase. I did not nor have I ever asked to purchase his cables. I think the above e-mails shows that quite clearly as well as all the other facts that I have presented in this Forum.
Thank You,
Stealth03es
As of 05-24-2002, Audiogon is requesting input from members regarding this dispute. |
