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  How do you judge your system's neutrality?

Here’s an answer I’ve been kicking around: Your system is becoming more neutral whenever you change a system element (component, cable, room treatment, etc.) and you get the following results:

(1) Individual pieces of music sound more unique.
(2) Your music collection sounds more diverse.

This theory occurred to me one day when I changed amps and noticed that the timbres of instruments were suddenly more distinct from one another. With the old amp, all instruments seemed to have a common harmonic element (the signature of the amp?!). With the new amp, individual instrument timbres sounded more unique and the range of instrument timbres sounded more diverse. I went on to notice that whole songs (and even whole albums) sounded more unique, and that my music collection, taken as a whole, sounded more diverse.

That led me to the following idea: If, after changing a system element, (1) individual pieces of music sound more unique, and (2) your music collection sounds more diverse, then your system is contributing less of its own signature to the music. And less signature means more neutral.

Thoughts?

P.S. This is only a way of judging the relative neutrality of a system. Judging the absolute neutrality of a system is a philosophical question for another day.

P.P.S. I don’t believe a system’s signature can be reduced to zero. But it doesn’t follow from that that differences in neutrality do not exist.

P.P.P.S. I’m not suggesting that neutrality is the most important goal in building an audio system, but in my experience, the changes that have resulted in greater neutrality (using the standard above) have also been the changes that resulted in more musical enjoyment.
Bryoncunningham  (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

11-05-09
  Responses (1-50 of 396)
Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

11-05-09   This is correct. a system that makes different recordings so ...   Shadorne

11-06-09   Just because i am in a contrary mood tonight, i can't resist ...   Learsfool

11-06-09   I don't think it's a silly term when applied in this way. i ...   Tholt

11-06-09   This is an excellent topic to throw around byron. for me, it ...   Vandermeulen

11-06-09   i think the term defines itself. does a piece add to or sub ...   Blindjim

11-06-09   Thanks for the responses so far. one point of clarification. ...   Bryoncunningham

11-06-09   Neutrality by definition is 'without difference'.   Buconero117

11-06-09   By it's unwillingness to be pulled into conflict while still ...   Entrope

11-06-09   "my original post was intended... to operationalize the ...   Dgarretson

11-06-09   Since all components are inaccurate, one cannot achieve perf ...   Mrtennis

11-06-09   How about thinking of the lower amount of distotion in the s ...   Ras422

11-06-09   Fascinating posts, guys, deserving of a more serious respons ...   Learsfool

11-06-09   Because concensus will be difficult to achive with many ways ...   Vandermeulen

11-06-09   "the strange idea of "neutral" neutrality is ...   Dgarretson

11-06-09   Learsfool wrote: "music is not, and never should be &qu ...   Bryoncunningham

11-06-09   While this discussion is interesting, i think it is getting ...   Cbw723

11-06-09   Imho, a systems resolution, i.e. its ability to resolve and ...   Newbee

11-07-09   “if, after changing a system element, (1) individual pieces ...   Hamburg

11-07-09   I won't call my system neutral. i'll say it's somewhere in ...   Abucktwoeighty

11-07-09   So far, the majority of posters seem to be subjectivists wit ...   Bryoncunningham

11-07-09   Nice posts again, guys! vandermeulen, you make my main poin ...   Learsfool

11-07-09   Byron, isn't that sort of an oxymoron, an 'objective' audiop ...   Newbee

11-07-09   Here is what i have gained from everyone's input: neutralit ...   Vandermeulen

11-07-09   Learsfool - excellent post. i don't think we are much closer ...   Bryoncunningham

11-07-09   Newbee, there's a lot to be objective about. in get better ...   Cbw723

11-07-09   "when you remove a bit of system distortion, different ...   Dgarretson

11-07-09   Hi byron - i must make an observation here. you posted that ...   Learsfool

11-07-09   Cbw (& byron), i have never taken any exception to the point ...   Newbee

11-07-09   Bryoncunningham, i just want to say welcome to audiogon. it' ...   Tvad

11-07-09   Learsfool wrote: "you posted that you want to hear as c ...   Bryoncunningham

11-07-09   Tvad - thank you for welcoming me. this is, indeed, the firs ...   Bryoncunningham

11-07-09   It's clear to me what byroncunningham is using as a baseline ...   Tvad

11-07-09   Please explain how flat frequency response is inconsistent w ...   Mrtennis

11-07-09   Mrtennis - your are right that flat frequency response is es ...   Shadorne

11-08-09   Again, great posts everyone! i have to agree with newbee ov ...   Learsfool

11-08-09   It never ceases to tickle me how such ambiguous and subjecti ...   Blindjim

11-08-09: Audioengr
Here is one phenomena that I've experienced:

Preamp in or out of the system - most preamps, except the very best in the world tend to "homogenize" the sound IME, even the ones that I have modded. This causes the turntable, CD player and computer to all sound very similar. Because this is not jitter or frequency response, I believe the difference is added compression. This is the inability of the preamp to reproduce accurately the transient excursions in the music. The preamp has changed the dynamic response.

When the preamp is effectively eliminated, the different sources tend to sound much different from each other.

Also, tracks that previiously were not very interesting to listen to are now compelling.

I believe this is one of the major problems with analog audio equipment.

This is what I call the liveness factor.

Neutrality usually refers to an evenhandedness from top to bottom, which can certainly be changed with frequency response. Hoever, most high-end gear has excellent frequency response, so the explanation for this is likely transient response, not frequency response.

Audioengr  (Threads | Answers | This Thread)


11-09-09   audioengr you had me worried there for a minute... i thou ...   Blindjim

11-12-09   Audioengr - most of recordings have some form of compression ...   Kijanki

11-16-09   Kijanki writes: "would "neutral" system sound ...   Cbw723

11-16-09   that's a very descriptive analogy.   Tvad

11-16-09   "but if the goal is to make a recording sound, as much ...   Kijanki

11-17-09   Recently, i had a dilemma that nearly every audiophile faces ...   Bryoncunningham

11-17-09   without going into details, the basic engineering design ph ...   Shadorne

11-17-09   When you are asked whether you like a particular recording, ...   Jult52

11-17-09   Bryon, i don't know why your use of the word 'neutrality' bu ...   Newbee

11-17-09   good question. they have the same problem in pro audio. so ...   Shadorne

11-17-09   Jult52 wrote: "when you are asked whether you like a pa ...   Bryoncunningham

11-18-09   Bryon, you say that 'neutrality is not an all or nothing thi ...   Newbee

11-18-09   Newbee wrote: "using the term neutrality as a goal is, ...   Bryoncunningham


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