Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
11-18-09
Kijanki wrote: "well - i'm my own playback engineer and ... Cbw723
11-18-09
Byron, imho we simply disagreed on the use of the term neutr ... Newbee
11-18-09
Cbw723 - no i would not adjust sound for individual songs bu ... Kijanki
11-18-09
Nothing creates as much discord among audiophiles as the top ... Tvad
11-18-09
Tvad - you forgot "analog vs. digital" and "t ... Kijanki
11-18-09
isn't that what part of what these talented people do? they ... Shadorne
11-18-09
I had a girlfriend once, who was quite neutral looking, neut ... Gawdbless
11-18-09
Shadorne - i don't question existence of better recordings o ... Kijanki
11-19-09
Great posts - byron, i guess what myself, newbee, kijanki, s ... Learsfool
11-19-09
Learsfool wrote: "i can tell you that no two of us woul ... Bryoncunningham
11-19-09
"i am actually somewhat agnostic." - don't worry, ... Kijanki
11-19-09
well, after 61 posts so far in this thread, i'll throw in m ... Almarg
11-19-09
Kijanki wrote: "no i would not adjust sound for individ ... Cbw723
11-19-09
Cbw723 - don't you have any financial limitations? if not ... Kijanki
11-20-09
I've been doing critical listening lately from 12-24" a ... Cdc
11-20-09
you may have an issue with room acoustics (extremely common ... Shadorne
11-20-09
al, we agree (as usual) - see the first posted reply in thi ... Shadorne
11-20-09
I started this thread with a proposal about how to identify ... Bryoncunningham
11-20-09
I like this definition, but what about imaging? couldn't a ... Cbw723
11-20-09
I think the original two point are valid but a third point i ... Samhar
11-20-09
Byron, it's hard to argue with your new, or restated, positi ... Newbee
11-20-09
Excellent last several posts, most definitely including newb ... Almarg
11-20-09
"the word 'unique' as you have used in your original po ... Cbw723
11-20-09
Al - you have stated exactly the intention of my original po ... Bryoncunningham
11-20-09
Way cool discussion going on here. had a feeling this one wo ... Tholt
11-20-09
good question, t, and i think that the answer stems from the ... Almarg
11-20-09
Cbw723, you are right civility is very important and hostili ... Newbee
11-21-09
Fascinating discussion! newbee, i agree with you 100%. bry ... Learsfool
11-22-09: Bryoncunningham
Learsfool - I agree with your observation that it would difficult for a group of audiophiles to agree about which high resolution system was the most neutral. But I believe that (1) more agreement exists than has been generally acknowledged in this thread; and (2) more agreement is possible if the term neutral is operationalized (perhaps in the way I have suggested, perhaps not).
Al essentially made point (1) when he wrote:
I think that the validity of the underlying point can be most easily seen by considering a very extreme example. Consider a system purchased at Walmart for a total system price of $300, in comparison with say a $50K system such as some Audiogoner's have. I don't think anyone here will disagree as to which one will provide better and more enjoyable sound, and I don't think that anyone here will disagree as to which one is more neutral/accurate/etc.
Al chose this extreme example to make the point, but I believe that agreement among audiophiles concerning neutrality would not be limited to such extremes, particularly if they were to evaluate a variety of high resolution systems in acoustically identical rooms. This is merely a thought experiment used to illustrate my belief that there is more overlap in audiophiles' perception, including the perception of neutrality, than has been generally acknowledged in this thread. Learsfool expressed skepticism about agreement among audiophiles in his last post:
"Let's take Almarg's 50K system example. One could easily assemble several that would all sound really great yet completely and totally different. How could a group of people possibly agree on which one of them was the most "neutral?"
Perhaps these systems would sound "completely and totally different" to some group of audiophiles, because audiophiles are attuned to very subtle differences in audio, and we have very well defined preferences about those differences. But I think it's informative to also consider the perception of non-audiophiles. To them, I doubt these systems would sound "completely and totally different."
Which is more valid in evaluating how different these systems sound: the expert judgment of the audiophile or the naive judgment of the layman? I'm not sure there's an answer to this question. But it's useful to consider because it highlights the possibility that more convergence exists among high resolution systems than is commonly recognized among audiophiles. And if that's true, then perhaps the inability of audiophiles to come to an agreement says more about the audiophiles (myself included) than it does about the systems they listen to.
Bryoncunningham (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
11-22-09
It would be complicated for non-audiophiles to judge neutral ... Dgarretson
11-22-09
Dgarretson - great post. some thoughts... i agree with thi ... Bryoncunningham
11-23-09
Bryon, so much of this is about convergence. interesting sp ... Dgarretson
11-23-09
Interesting posts, guys. first, the 50k systems example. i ... Learsfool
11-23-09
Learsfool wrote: i am not saying that a musician's "t ... Bryoncunningham
11-23-09
Learsfool, there is a remote possibility that the gradual co ... Dgarretson
11-24-09
Hi bryon - i am once again thankful i became a musician, and ... Learsfool
11-24-09
Learsfool, all good points. regarding whether "converge ... Dgarretson
11-24-09
Incidently, in forums & industry market-speak the notion of ... Dgarretson
11-24-09
Learsfool - your last post contains many interesting and val ... Bryoncunningham
11-24-09
this idea is fascinating. you mentioned it in your first p ... Cbw723
11-24-09
Interesting points, guys. dgarretson, in general i agree wi ... Learsfool
11-24-09
actually, i think the water analogy is pretty apt here. sc ... Cbw723
11-24-09
Cbw723, i can't extend my experience of close convergence be ... Dgarretson
11-24-09
Learsfool wrote: i disagree that we cannot identify definit ... Bryoncunningham
11-25-09
Very interesting thoughts, bryon, points on the water analog ... Learsfool
11-25-09
You all realize, just changing the volume knob up or down a ... Tonywinsc
11-25-09
Learsfool - i agree that this has been a thought-provoking d ... Bryoncunningham
11-25-09
This simile of a filtering ski goggle is interesting, as is ... Dgarretson
11-25-09
If you really are looking for neutrality then get a frequenc ... Tonywinsc
11-25-09
Tonywinse wrote: this test of the value of neutrality is no ... Bryoncunningham
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