Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
12-26-09
Hi byron: my point is simple: if you enjoy a stereo system ... Mrtennis
12-26-09
mrtennis - i disagree that the "analysis" of musi ... Bryoncunningham
12-26-09
Bryon, several posts back you raise interesting points by di ... Dgarretson
12-26-09
Bryon - analyzing or not is a personal preference but we dis ... Kijanki
12-27-09
"sounding better and sounding neutral are two completel ... Dgarretson
12-27-09
Neutral is the letting the music on the disc to be fully rea ... Muralman1
12-27-09
Dgarretson- you suggest in your question that neutral is a g ... Kijanki
12-27-09
Muralman1 wrote "better is the listener's subjective no ... Kijanki
12-27-09
Kijanki, my view is that analytic & sterile err at the oppos ... Dgarretson
12-27-09
Dgarretson - absolutely agree. the problem is who is the ju ... Kijanki
12-27-09
Complete neutrality, that is the live performance, cannot be ... Muralman1
12-27-09
Vince, i hope you realize that what sounds neutral to you mi ... Kijanki
12-27-09
Kijanki, let me give you an example. i have a dac that is tu ... Muralman1
12-27-09
Tuned to warmth - that is your preference. i don't care for ... Kijanki
12-27-09
You did not read what i wrote. i said i changed that colored ... Muralman1
12-27-09
Vince, i'm sorry - i read it too quick. Kijanki
12-27-09
There was an iteresting piece in stereophile edited by marku ... Mrtennis
12-27-09
Kijanki, warmth that lacks correct pitch definition is yet o ... Dgarretson
12-27-09
Dgarretson - you're obviously in a "warm" camp wh ... Kijanki
12-28-09
Oops - did i say i want neutral sound? i guess we're all se ... Kijanki
12-28-09
Such descriptions of personal experiences regarding colorati ... Dgarretson
12-28-09
Dgarretson - i also like system a little on the warm side be ... Kijanki
12-28-09
It seems there exists a dichotomy--enjoment of music and ana ... Mrtennis
12-28-09
Dgarretson wrote: i completely agree with this. and: ... Bryoncunningham
12-30-09
Wow - i have been unable to read/post here for a while now d ... Learsfool
12-30-09
Learsfool, as one progressively raises the bar in the hobby ... Dgarretson
12-30-09
learsfool – i agree with this. my view is that, although pe ... Bryoncunningham
12-31-09
Dgarretson, i was speaking more of improvement in listener a ... Learsfool
12-31-09
what is the evidence for this belief? why is the effort to ... Bryoncunningham
01-01-10
Great ideas for a gazlay's sequel. Shadorne
01-05-10
When i began this thread, i advocated a strict kind of objec ... Bryoncunningham
01-07-10
Hi bryon - i have been out of town again for several days, a ... Learsfool
01-08-10
learsfool - i agree with you that audiophiles commonly lose ... Bryoncunningham
01-18-10
After ten weeks or so, this thread has slowed to a halt. in ... Bryoncunningham
01-18-10
Interesting. did you take the blue pill or the red one? Shadorne
01-18-10
I'm sufficiently out of it that i didn't get shadorne's clev ... Almarg
01-18-10
Bryon, your constructs are interesting, and in conclusion t ... Dgarretson
01-18-10
Nice concluding post. it does, however, raise the question ... Cbw723
01-18-10
like bryon, i took the red one. but that blue one can be ... Cbw723
01-18-10
Ultimately, i think most of us do not listen to music in an ... Mrtennis
01-20-10
Hi bryon - just saw your most recent post. very interesting ... Learsfool
01-20-10
Learsfool – interesting thoughts. as i understand you, you a ... Bryoncunningham
01-21-10
Hi bryon - good reply. i grant your point that 4) does not ... Learsfool
01-21-10: Bryoncunningham
Learsfool – I believe that you and I are talking about two different kinds of electronic music recordings. In my last post, I was talking about:
(1) A recording in which electronic sounds are produced by a device, performed in a real acoustical space, and recorded with a microphone to a recording medium.
I believe that you are talking about:
(2) A recording in which electronic sounds are produced by a device and recorded DIRECTLY TO THE RECORDING MEDIUM.
In (1), the recording is just like a recording of an acoustical musical event, except that the sounds are produced from electronic “instruments,” rather than acoustical ones.
In (2), there is no performance, no real acoustical space, and no microphone. There is just the device that creates the sound and the recording medium.
I agree with you that recordings as described in (2) are more likely to be ACCURATE representations of the original electronic sounds. You may be right that this is partly attributable to the fact that electronic sounds are less complex than vocal or acoustical ones. But it is also attributable to the fact that MORE THAN HALF THE RECORDING PROCESS HAS BEEN ELIMINATED. The performance has been eliminated. The acoustical space has been eliminated. The microphone has been eliminated. And in some cases, the need for a “field” recording format (distinct from the subsequent “storage” recording format) has been eliminated. It is no wonder, then, that the resulting recording is MORE INHERENTLY ACCURATE, as you suggested.
However, the kind of accuracy just described is not the same as the concept of “truthfulness” I used in my post on 1/18, which was rather: TRANSPARENCY TO THE MUSICAL PERFORMANCE. In the case of music recordings as described in (2), there quite literally IS NO PERFORMANCE. Therefore, the question of the recording’s truthfulness, in the sense in which I’ve been using the term, does not apply.
But all of this seems like a peripheral matter, since the real goal of my post on 1/18 was not to highlight the difference between acoustical and electronic recordings, but rather to highlight the difference between recordings of REAL events and recordings of VIRTUAL events. I only brought up electronically produced sounds as one example of what, in my view, contributes to making a recording “virtual.” Among the other things that make a recording virtual: Multiple microphones with different perspectives, music editing, and the liberal use of creative mixing techniques.
Perhaps the simplest illustration of what makes a musical event virtual is music editing, that is, editing together segments from multiple takes to create the illusion of a single, continuous “performance.” This is done all the time in popular music, and when it is, the performance that is on the recording is, at least partially, VIRTUAL, in the sense that IT NEVER EXISTED IN REALITY. To use an analogy…
Consider a painting of a landscape that never existed, but is a composite of various landscapes drawn from the memory of the painter. In other words, it is a virtual landscape, in the sense that it never existed in reality. As such, the painting cannot be evaluated in terms of its truthfulness, i.e. its correspondence to reality, simply because there is no real landscape for the painting to correspond to. So the question of the truthfulness of the painting does not apply. Hence the attitude of Objectivism about the painting is unwarranted.
As I see it, the case is almost exactly the same with music recordings. Consider a “performance” edited together from many segments of multiple takes recorded over different days. In other words, it is a virtual performance, in the sense that it never existed in reality. As such, it is difficult or perhaps impossible to evaluate the recording in terms of its truthfulness, i.e. its correspondence to reality, because there is no real performance for the recording to correspond to. So the question of the truthfulness of the recording does not apply. Or more precisely, it applies less and less as recordings are more and more edited (since I understand the distinction between real and virtual events as being on a continuum). Hence the more virtual the event a recording represents, the less the attitude of Objectivism is warranted.
Bryoncunningham (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-21-10
Hi bryon - to reply to the first part of your post first, i ... Learsfool
01-21-10
Learsfool - i am aware of the extent to which recording, edi ... Bryoncunningham
01-21-10
actually, technically, that's a playback of a performance u ... Cbw723
01-22-10
Cbw and bryon - you both seem to be assuming that a "pe ... Learsfool
01-23-10
the idea that all recordings should be considered performan ... Bryoncunningham
01-23-10
Hi bryon - first, the performance discussion. all music mus ... Learsfool
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