Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
12-11-09
Tolstoy: "truth, like gold, is to be obtained not by it ... Dgarretson
12-11-09
Dgarretson writes: heh. relating to continuousness, move ... Cbw723
12-11-09
Dgarretson wrote: this is a very interesting observation. i ... Bryoncunningham
12-12-09
many message boards give you the option to put trolls on ig ... Cbw723
12-12-09
Dgarretson, you are as sharp as a tack! love your response a ... Newbee
12-12-09
Newbee, sorry i was inhospitable. your speculation that the ... Dgarretson
12-12-09
lol! by posting an on-topic discussion on the application ... Cbw723
12-12-09
Meanwhile, back in the on-topic world, i think i’ve come up ... Cbw723
12-12-09
Dgarretson – thanks for clarifying your view on “embodiment. ... Bryoncunningham
12-12-09
Cbw, my interpretation of bryon's posts has been that he wan ... Learsfool
12-12-09
A little while back, al suggested substituting another term, ... Bryoncunningham
12-13-09
yes, that is essentially the argument. #1 and #3 are by def ... Cbw723
12-13-09
A fuller extract of ideas from g. holt’s audio glossary seem ... Dgarretson
12-13-09
Learsfool wrote: like many people, i have had this experie ... Bryoncunningham
12-14-09: Learsfool
Dgarretson, thanks for the clarification. I actually didn't know about the Holt dictionary. The only place I had previously seen common audiophile terms defined was in Robert Harley's book. I'm sure there isn't much difference between those two, anyway. That Holt book would be fascinating reading. I find it amusing that he defines "neutral" as free from coloration, as you guys are, but then feels the need to define "uncolored" as free from AUDIBLE coloration. This is especially funny to me coming from the guy who defined "subjectivist" reviewing! Harley's book also speaks of the objectivist/subjectivist divide in the same sense as Holt does, by the way. It was my understanding, though, that Harry Pearson was the one who defined many of these terms originally, and he was certainly the one who defined the concept of "the absolute sound."
Getting back more on topic, I have one comment on your observation that "To distinguish problems in playback from problems in recording, the trained listener merely needs to listen to a wide variety of recordings on the same playback system." While I do agree with this as far as it goes, this is only part of it. I believe the trained listener must also do the opposite - listen to the same few recordings that one is very familiar with on a wide variety of playback systems. This is much more useful for evaluating the playback end of the equation, while the former helps distinguish problems in recording.
However, no matter how precisely we can define various different terms and types of colorations, etc., (and I am not saying this is not valuable) people will hear many of them differently, for many different reasons. Setting aside personal preferences/reference points, one audiophile may have a much better/more trained ear than another. One could also have a better but more untrained ear than the other, a case which can really confuse the issue for both. Another example I find is all too common in the audiophile world - someone who thinks they have a good and/or trained ear, and knows quite a bit about the science behind audio products, but unfortunately doesn't actually hear very well. I'm sure we can all think of a dealer where this is the case! Others mentioned the effects of aging/hearing loss - everyone's ear, no matter what level it is/was originally, can/does/will change, for better and/or for worse. Unfortunately, as an orchestral musician I am guaranteed to lose at least 20% of my hearing over the course of my career. What sounds better to you today may not tomorrow, and this will change your perception of many types of "colorations." I guess I've said all I really have to say on the subject, though I do find the discussion of terms interesting and will continue to follow the thread.
Speaking of ear training, I would urge all audiophiles to consider taking a formal aural skills course - these are often offered as adult extension courses at music programs in large universities. This sort of ear training is much more valuable for actually listening to your music (as opposed to your system), and always leads to much more enjoyment of your music, no matter what type you listen to. It will also have the benefit of greatly increasing your ability to listen for your system's characteristics, especially the more musically-related ones. And it is much cheaper than a new component for your system, too, LOL! It's all about the music in the end, or should be, anyway. I have greatly enjoyed the discussion - thanks for starting the thread, Bryon!
Learsfool (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
12-14-09
Preference for a particular coloration(s))and the general t ... Mrtennis
12-14-09
Learsfool – i appreciate your thanks and i’m grateful for yo ... Bryoncunningham
12-14-09
I agree with mrtennis. this discussion is analogous to jugg ... Tvad
12-15-09
Hi bryon - i agree that this has been an interesting debate. ... Learsfool
12-15-09
Learsfool – although it is hazardous to argue by proxy, i wi ... Bryoncunningham
12-15-09
I would like to say a few words, not the detractors of neutr ... Bryoncunningham
12-15-09
Bryon, i would like to apologize to you for my acts of hosti ... Newbee
12-15-09
Bryon wrote, "by improving the way you think about thin ... Dgarretson
12-15-09
i second these thoughts, and share these feelings in my own ... Almarg
12-15-09
Hi bryon - nice posts! your second interpretation of the &q ... Learsfool
12-15-09
this is the part i find most puzzling. i realize that ther ... Cbw723
12-15-09
To whip the horse's eyes with one more water analogy, " ... Dgarretson
12-15-09
Learsfool says: by this argument, you also believe that pre ... Cbw723
12-15-09
Cb723 - my vacuum cleaner is very low pressure cleaner. hop ... Kijanki
12-15-09
Newbee, dgarretson, al, and cbw – thank you all for your com ... Bryoncunningham
12-16-09
A while ago bryon produced some equations. among them: jus ... Cbw723
12-17-09
Cbw – those are excellent observations. taking them one at a ... Bryoncunningham
12-17-09
Hi bryon - i think there is still some misunderstanding here ... Learsfool
12-17-09
Learsfool wrote: learsfool - i understand that you believ ... Bryoncunningham
12-18-09
Hi bryon - interesting questions, and i am sorry i can't tak ... Learsfool
12-19-09
In the english language , better is a subjective term, unles ... Mrtennis
12-19-09
Mrtennis writes: yes, it is. but it also isn't the subject ... Cbw723
12-20-09
Hi cbw: aural memory is very short. when judging the difffe ... Mrtennis
12-21-09
Mr. tennis, you aren't telling us your short memory prevents ... Muralman1
12-21-09
Vince - i have many piano recordings and each of them is dif ... Kijanki
12-21-09
There is much subjectivity involved in making statements of ... Mrtennis
12-21-09
Kijanki, the point i am making is, if you know what a grand ... Muralman1
12-21-09
Vince - yes, i can recognize piano when i hear one (i think) ... Kijanki
12-22-09
Observations: there are some really intelligent people in t ... Entrope
12-24-09
Learsfool - sorry for the late reply. i've been traveling fo ... Bryoncunningham
12-24-09
Mrtennis wrote: and kijanki wrote: let assume this: i g ... Bryoncunningham
12-24-09
Does anyone posit that in order to enjoy the fruits of liste ... Mrtennis
12-24-09
Bryoncunningham - we have two problems here: first - you be ... Kijanki
12-25-09
Mrtennis and kijanki - i have said many, many times on this ... Bryoncunningham
12-25-09
Bryoncunningham - you're a nice guy and i like reading your ... Kijanki
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