AudiogoN Forums: Black Diamond Racing products under speakers?

Black Diamond Racing products under speakers?

I am wondering if anyone out there has tried BDR Cones or Pucks under their speakers. I have a carpeted plywood floor and have been experimenting with Vibrapods under my floor standing speakers. I feel like their is a dramatic improvement in the overall quality of the sound using them. The thing is that I have Vandersteen 2Ce's and am using the Vibrapods between the T shaped Vandersteen stands and the speakers. The stands still have the spikes on them for stability on the carpet. With the pods set up this way their is a lot less vibration noticable with a hand laid on the cabinet durring loud percussive passages and the sand no longer leakes out of the stands which also tells me that there is a lot less energy being transfered into the stand and therefore into the floor. The problem is that the stands are bolted to the speakers(I use longer bolts to adjust for the added thickness of the pods)and since you dont want to overtighten the bolts in order to not crush the Vibrapods(which may diminish their effectiveness). With this set up over time the bolts loosen up and you have to keep checking them to make sure that the speakers don't fall off the stands(made worse due to the fact that the speakers need to be tilted back slightly). My 2Wq is on pods as well, by the way.

I know that the Audio Point(Warrenh), cone foot, spike guys out there are going to scream bloody murder that decoupling anything is a travisty and that you need to have a pathway to drain...bla bla bla... I will say that if it works for you do it. I am a dampening/isolation guy myself. This may just be because of differences in room/floor construction.

Has anyone tried using the BDR carbon fiber products instead of something like Vibrapods under their speakers? I think that some of "The Pucks" or "The Thick Pucks" might solve the problem. I could even put the speakers on a Bright Star Big Rock with Pyrimid cones under the stands with The Pucks between the stand and the speaker. I know I can't afford to set the speaker/Puck/Cone combo on BDR "The Shelf Boards". The 3/4" BDR material is said to have 25 times the resistance to resonance of 8" of granite. This way I can tighten the stands a bit more firmly since the BDR material is not elastic like the Vibrapods. Any ideas or comments?

Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03

Responses (1-17 of 17)

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01-03-03: Timo
Yes. I have used the BDR MK. IV cones under a pair of psb Stratus Gold loudspeakers to very good effect. I just stuck them underneath (3 per speaker) and let the weight of the speaker keep them in place.
Timo (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Vikvilkhu
I used a Vibrapod sandwich as a bass under my speakers and then used DH cones underneath the sandwich. I was using PSB speakers in a concrete loft. Pretty amazing improvement. It was the only thing that really got the boomy bas under control. tightened things up nicley, but alas my room sucked so...
-Vik

Vikvilkhu (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Maxgain
Timo, you have the speakers on a bare hardwood floor? How did you feel about what it did for the sound and what were they on before?
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Timo
Maxgain:

The speakers were on plush carpet on top of pad on top of concrete. With the BDR Mk. IV cones between speaker and carpet, sound became more focused and clarity increased, especially noticeable on vocal diction (could understand the words more easily). Also, cymbals sounded more realistic and less smeared. Bass had a deeper, tighter foundation.
Timo (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Lugnut
Maxgain,

While I have no experience with your setup or decoupling the speakers from the floor, I do have a lot of experience with bolts/nuts that loosen. I would find what is referred to as a nylock assembly. Most people have seen the nylock nuts but not the bolts. For those of you that aren't familiar with this type of fastener, it has nylon intergral with the thread and really holds even if you don't tighten the bolt or nut. Most large cities have a fastener specialty outlet. I would recommend taking one of your bolts with you to such a store and buying enough to replace the bolts you are now using.

My hotrod would simply vibrate apart without these wonderful products.
Lugnut (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Bob_bundus
how about some Locktite thread locker compound (use the green minimum strength, or at most the blue formulation) on those threads. They won't be coming loose again until you wrench on them.
Bob_bundus (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Maxgain
Lugnut and Bob, thanks both are good ideas. I think I have some blue Locktite and I might give that a try first.

I would still like to hear from others who have played with different ways of decoupling speakers. Townshend Audio makes a Seismic Sink loudspeaker platform which I would love to try. The smallest one of three models is $900 a pair. So I won't be doing it any time soon.
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-04-03: Bob_bundus
geez Max - you mean you're not going for the Vibraplanes? $$$$$ :)
Bob_bundus (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-03-03: Jab
I didn't like the BDR cones under my speakers. I found that the speakers were unstable without carpet piercing spikes. I want to try DH squares (with drilled holes)and brass cones. BDR round things with holes all the way through will also work I am sure with brass cones.
Jab (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-04-03: Lugnut
Maxgain,

I guess Locktite is worth a try but it is designed to hold when the fasteners are torqued to spec. It's not glue. That's why I believe the Nylock product comes closest to your needs. They will resist backing out from vibration based on your description of not tightening to spec. Good luck.

Patrick
Lugnut (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-04-03: Maxgain
Lugnut, another good point. Do you supose that a Home Depot would carry the Nylock bolts? I don't live in a big city and anything remotly exotic is hard to find in this locality. Perhaps an auto parts store, I don't know of any Hot Rod shops around here. Anyone out there know the thread spec for the Vandy's stands? The instructions for the stands makes no mention of it. I was able to get the right thread last time by taking one of the old bolts with me for a match. I suppose I could get the thread spec the same way at a hardware and then keep looking for the correct Nylock bolts. If needed to order them from a specialty supplier at least then I would know what to get.

Bob,no, I am NOT the recent Powerball lotto winner!
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-05-03: Chazzbo
Anybody know difference in price between BDR and Black Diamond?Andy other good dense cones or pucks out there.Certainly Sorbothan couldn't be used under speakers or heavy amps.Good topic.Also why don't any used BD VPI clamps coem up used?My freind said his makes his 19 waaayyy better.
Chazzbo (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-05-03: Maxgain
Chazzbo, If I understand your question, I think that you are talking about the same company. BDR makes, or did make, a clamp for use with VPI tables.
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-06-03: Maxgain
I am having second thoughts about the pods under the main speakers. They seem to solve some problems and cause some new ones. I need to experiment further when I have some time. They seem to allow for a more dynamic persentation but now I am hearing a boom problem that I can't seem to work out or explain.
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-06-03: Maxgain
I figured out the problem. When I put the pods under the cabinet I screwed up the amount of tilt. I tried them tilted further forward thinking that was what I needed to do. Wrong! I leaned them back a bit until the boom went away and everything came back into focus. The spacial info came back and I still have the improved dynamics. Anyone with Vandy 2's needs to be careful with the proper tilt angle. I also found out that the screws on the back plates needed to be tightened slightly as I tracked down an odd buzz to them. Tweeking can get confusing sometimes!
Maxgain (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

01-06-03: Lugnut
Maxgain,

For an interim solution try wrapping as much teflon tape as possible around the bolt threads. If you can find the bolt specs I may be able to forward enough bolts of the nylock variety. Contact me directly for this. Good luck.

Patrick
Lugnut (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

04-04-10: Upforsomething
Just got done putting 4 BDR Jumbos under Dunlavy SC4a's which sit on a padded carpet, they worked great, sounded great, highly rec.!!!! Also have tried Aurios,for a small improvement.
Upforsomething (Answers | This Thread)