AudiogoN Forums: Presentation is Too Forward, where to start?

Presentation is Too Forward, where to start?

Newbie looking for tweaks or equipment suggestions to resolve a too-forward presentation. Strong vocals (female and male), horns, guitar solo tracks, all have me wanting to move up against the far wall at low to moderate listening levels. Tonal balance, treble, mid, and bass are all OK and overall soundstaging is well-developed. I enjoy all types of music from traditional country blues, electric blues, jazz, Allman Brothers, Stones, Who, singer / songwriters, country, classical.

My room is 180 square feet, given the furnishings and thick pile carpet I would say it is pretty dead. My listening position is about 6 - 8 feet from the speaker plane. My speakers are 6 feet apart and 18 inches from the rear wall. Equipment:

Turntable: Music Hall MMF 5.1 with Grado Reference Platinum 1 (wall mounted on 2 inch Maple Platform.)

Phono Preamp: JoLida JD9

CD: Rega Apollo with NXG (cheapo) digital interconnect.
DAC: Music Hall 25.3 using Speltz interconnect.

Integrated Amp: Musical Fidelity A5

Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver RS6 with Signal Cable bi-wires. Sensitivity is at 90db, nominal impedence is 6 ohms.

Old Velodyne sub VA68XII connected to the Speaker Posts.

Computer Audio: iMac, running out of iTunes with an AudioEngine D2 wireless, outputted via optical connection into the Music Hall DAC.

Stand: Lovan Sovereign

Power Cords: Sound String.

Forward presentation exists through all input sources.

Jwhiii56 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

04-18-12

Responses (1-10 of 10)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

04-19-12 I would suggest one small one inexpensive thing to try. buy ... Kotta

04-19-12 I agree with kotta's impression of your speakers. i owned a ... Sfar

04-19-12: Bombaywalla

My listening position is about 6 - 8 feet from the speaker plane.

do you have an exact measurement of your listening chair from the speaker plane? 6-8' seems to imply that you move the chair around in that 2' region OR you move as your listening session progresses! OR, are you simply ballparking the number; you never measured it?
8' would be better if you could help it.

One question for you: how high are your ears off the floor? Your speaker is only 33.5" tall per the specifications. What I'm wondering is whether or not the drivers have integrated at your listening position? If they haven't, then you are going to hear a lot more treble/high freq & that'll bite your ears. Hence the suggestion to move back to 8' giving the drivers another 2' to integrate. If you cannot move back, change your chair & get one that makes you sit lower so that your ears get closer to the floor. This is another way to get the drivers to integrate. If you are unwilling to sit lower, you can also raise your speaker - you go down OR your speaker goes up: same difference. Yet another way to assist driver integration is to tilt your speaker back a few degrees. I prefer the 1st 2 options & the 3rd only if you've no other choice.
Stereophile did measurements on your speaker model in 2006 but their measurements are at 50" which makes absolutely no sense at all. Who'd be sitting in a chair with one's ears 50" off the floor?? Looking at Fig 6, I was trying to see if their measuring height was correct. If it was the impulse response would have been a triangle rather than a triangle with a starting glitch. Their measurement of 50" is so far above the speaker that it's very hard to guess how much lower you need to sit. In measurements of some other speakers back in time, such as the Thiels, Stereophile used to adjust their measurement height to get a good impulse response (maybe they cared back then & they now have a GFY attitude today? With people paying them sub-$10 per year for their rag, they probably do!). Anyway Stereophile's measurements are essentially useless for home listening.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/monitor-audio-silver-rs6-loudspeaker-measurements
Bombaywalla (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

04-19-12 I believe the 50" refers to the distance from the speak ... Onhwy61

04-19-12: Bombaywalla
you're right Onhwy61 - I read it wrong! I went back & re-read it & it says "step response on tweeter axis at 50". My bad!
Bombaywalla (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

04-19-12 Bombaywalla, thanks for the input. my listening position ... Jwhiii56

04-19-12 It's the speakers. you are receiving excess high-frequency ... Drew_eckhardt

04-20-12: Bombaywalla

I sit in an office chair at the lowest setting and I'm 6'5" so my ears are 47" above the floor or a foot above the top of the speaker cabinets.

OMG, that's most likely your problem. You are hearing nothing but high freq.
Just the way drivers are constructed, the acoustical center of a tweeter is more in front of the driver than the acoustical center of a woofer. Hence the sound from the tweeter comes 1st to your ears. That's also one reason you find time-aligned speakers (like Thiel, Meadowlark, Green Mtn Audio) slope their baffles such that the tweeter is physically behind the woofer plane. With your sitting a foot above the height of the speaker the drivers have no chance of integrating.
You need to move much lower so that your ears are about 1" BELOW the midrange woofer. This way the tweeter sound will have the longest path to your ears & the woofers the shortest. It will compensate for the tweeter's acoustical center.
besides a beanbag you might also try those canvas lawn chairs (the ones you take for 'music-in-the-park'). The canvas seat sags once you sit & drops you lower. I've used these canvas lawn chairs successfully.
Since you're so tall, your solution might be 2-fold: seat lower + raise speaker.
Let us know how you fare.....
Bombaywalla (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

04-20-12 Mapleshade has those stands that will tilt speakers and they ... Marqmike

04-20-12 drew, i'm not young and hearing is shot. i've lost hearin ... Jwhiii56