|Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.|
Musicxyz, given your logic, i agree and would add that the s ... Tbg
no you didn't. you bought them from bob. and you still haven ... Essentialaudio
I not really sure who you are but i know where and who i bou ... Musicxyz
Tbg, i agree with you my opinion is just another opinion. i ... Musicxyz
Musicxyz, my sources firmly indicate you are bob, the former ... Essentialaudio
Bam !!! so my suspicions were right after all. Fiddler
I really don’t have time to play your game but you should st ... Musicxyz
Please be advised that i am one of the owners of hidiamond c ... Hidiamond
Anyone wanting to know who visited the teo audio partner's h ... Essentialaudio
Essentialaudio, 1. what does "liquid metal" mean w ... Sabai
Sabai, liquid metal refers to the patent-pending alloy of ga ... Essentialaudio
Sabai, please read the previous posts for information on the ... Essentialaudio
Essentialaudio, i see you mentioned earlier "it is a pr ... Sabai
Essentialaudio, i have been doing some research. the liquid ... Sabai
Sabai, get real. what do you use your cables for - calf ro ... Fiddler
Fiddler, if you read this thread carefully you will realize ... Sabai
Fiddler, the potential problem here is that we are talking a ... Sabai
Fiddler, that was a great read lol. chocolate given to som ... Glory
I should add that my cerious technologies cables, which had ... Tbg
Tbg, sounds like tubes in a cable. rich/3d/tonality spot on ... Glory
Fiddler and glory, you might be interested in reading tbg's ... Sabai
Sabai, i would be very slow to write such things about toxi ... Glory
good morning forum members, my name is taras kowalczysz ... Taras22
Glory, with all due respect, if you would devote some time t ... Sabai
I find it worthy to note the information on the teo site und ... Sabai
taras wrote: in all the time that teo audio has been in exi ... Essentialaudio
Sabai, wow. thanks for calling attention to tbg's post abo ... Fiddler
Nice of taras (sorry your last name is too long for me to ev ... Ghostinmachine
This message is for hidiamond, one of the owners of hidiamon ... Ghostinmachine
Glory, when referring to my statements regarding the toxicit ... Sabai
My kitchen cabinet is full of toxic substances. i guess it' ... Fiddler
do agree with ghostinthemachine that there is a sort of t ... Taras22
Sabai seems to have been on a real mission here to deal with what he sees as the potential horrors associated with the use of Galinstan. It should be noted that the alloy that TEO Audio uses is not exactly the same as Galinstan and any direct comparisons between the alloys are at this point purely conjecture on the part of Sabai. It should also be noted that Galinstan is a trademarked product of a company called Geratherm (www.geratherm) which uses Galinstan as a substitute for mercury in medical grade thermometers. Now what Sabai's argument seems to strongly imply is that Geratherm has used a known highly toxic material in a way that would have a very good chance of harming people with the use of their products. His argument also implies that the testing that this product was subject to, was seriously flawed (yet please keep in mind that this testing procedure has been either vetted or replicated by numerous medical jurisdictions around the world).
But the fact that the Geratherm thermometers are used the world-wide medical community would seem be to a testament to the notion that these are considered safe products and not potentially dangerous as Sabai implies.
Find below an exerpt from the Wikipedia entry on indium (and the scientific peer reviewed papers from which this entry has been drawn are listed below the Wikipedia indium entry) and please compare it with Sabai's assertions.
Precautions and health issues:
Pure indium in metal form is considered non-toxic by most sources. In the welding and semiconductor industries, where indium exposure is relatively high, there have been no reports of any toxic side-effects. Indium compounds, like aluminum compounds, complex with hydroxyls to form insoluble salts in basic conditions, and are thus not well-absorbed from food, giving them fairly low oral toxicty. Soluble indium(III) is toxic when delivered parenterally, however, causing damage primarily to the kidney (both inner and outer parts), but additionally to heart and liver, and may be teratogenic. Other indium compounds are toxic when administered outside the gastrointestinal tract: for example, anhydrous indium trichloride (InCl3) and indium phosphide (InP) are quite toxic when delivered into the lungs (the latter is a suspected carcinogen).(54)(
54^ Tanaka, A.; Hirata, M.; Omura, M., (2002). "Pulmonary toxicity of indium-tin oxide and indium phosphide after intratracheal instillations into the lung of hamsters". Journal of the Occupational Health 44 (2): 99–102. doi:10.1539/joh.44.99.
55^ Blazka, M. E.; Dixon, D., Haskins, E., Rosenthal, G. J. (1994). "Pulmonary toxicity to intratracheally administered indium trichloride in Fischer 344 rats". Fundamental Applied Toxicology 22 (2): 231–239. doi:10.1006/faat.1994.1027.
Now the entry above does indicate that damage to the human organism can occur when exposed to indium compounds and at first blush it seems to confirm what Sabai states in one of his posts....
"All indium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic. Indium compounds damage the heart, kidney, and liver, and may be teratogenic (causing birth defects)".
But a closer look at the issue shows that the issue is not quite as cut and dry. First, be aware that only certain indium alloys are indeed toxic
and they become a problem only if they are delivered parentally (see below for the definition of that term). Second, be aware that indium (III) is the result of a reaction of induim with some very specific oxidizing agents, which are either not found in the human body or in very small amounts, if at all--because these particular oxidizing agents are toxins that can be fatal to humans by themselves. Third, and probably most germane to this discussion, TEO Audio products do not have indium (III ) in its products and nor do they contain indium trichlorate or indium phosphide.
And in case the term parenteral is not understood by all reading this post (and it is the principal way in which indium (III) can enter the human organism to pose a threat) I have included a definition of the term below.
intravenous (into a vein), e.g. many drugs, total parenteral nutrition intra-arterial (into an artery), e.g. vasodilator drugs in the treatment of vasospasm and thrombolytic drugs for treatment of embolismintraosseous infusion (into the bone marrow) is, in effect, an indirect intravenous access because the bone marrow drains directly into the venous system. This route is occasionally used for drugs and fluids in emergency medicine and pediatrics when intravenous access is difficult. intra-muscular intracerebral (into the brain parenchyma) intracerebroventricular (into cerebral ventricular system) subcutaneous (under the skin)
And this can be cross-referenced against the following statement from the Wikpedia indium entry.
Indium is not known to be used by any organism. In a similar way to aluminium salts, indium(III) ions can be toxic to the kidney when given by injection, but oral indium compounds do not have the chronic toxicity of salts of heavy metals, probably due to poor absorption in basic conditions. Radioactive indium-111 (in very small amounts on a chemical basis) is used in nuclear medicine tests, as a radiotracer to follow the movement of labeled proteins and white blood cells in the body.
And please take note of the following statement which defines the conditions required if perchance pure indium ( and not indium in an alloy ) were to somehow become the toxic indium (111).
Indium does not react with water, but it is oxidized by stronger oxidizing agents, such as halogens or oxalic acid, to give indium(III) compounds.
Please note, again, that the one substance, halogen, is not normally found in the human body and other, oxalic acid, is a toxin, that at concentrations required to produce indium(111), would in and of itself, in certain situations, be enough to kill a human host. So the ingestion of indium is not really a problem since it would not be absorbed into soft tissue or possibly be morphed to indium (111) in the body and become an issue that way.
So to summerize....the existing literature does not indicate that our alloy poses a danger to living beings. It does however cause an unsightly mess if spilled, but this mess can be easily cleaned up with simple soap and water. I apologize for the way this post meanders but there was much to cover. I also have to apologize about drawing exclusivelly from one source, Wikipedia, but I decided to go with that source since not only was it well written, but it was also well annotated with references to peer reviewed articles at important parts of the entry (unlike Sabai's, which is drawn from a scissors-and-paste site put up by a company that sells water treatment solutions and who very likely have a vested interest in painting as dark a picture of a problem as they can...and do note that their assertions are not annotated) so that by simply going to a well known and easily accessible site, forum members can acquaint themselves with the relevant periodical literature.
Now I do wish to thank Sabai for voicing his obviously heartfelt concerns. At the very least, it forced us to re-examine our position on this topic, which is never a bad thing to do. But before I go, I would like to ask Sabai a question. Would it be ok to send the parts of this thread that list your concerns about Galinstan, and the danger it poses to humanity, to Geratherm? I'm sure they would more than happy to engage you in a dialog about the issues you have brought up about their products. Because, if you are correct, you have given them a free heads-up about the legal danger they have placed their clients in ( and the real danger the patients under their care are in ) and I'm sure they would be more than happy to reward you in what they would consider an appropriate manner.
And do please respond to this request in a timely manner, because to do otherwise would hold up the ability of Geratherm to right what you believe to be a great wrong. So if I don't hear from you in very short order, I will take the initiative, and send off your concerns, because this really can't wait another moment, since lives may well be hanging in the balance.
Now, you may find their initial response a wee bit terse, you are after-all potentially destroying their core business, but I'm sure they will come around once you prove to them how right you are, so good luck with that.
Thanks all for your time.
Taras22 (Answers | This Thread)
It has been stated on this thread that the constituents of t ... Sabai
Taras22, thank you for your detailed and considerate posting ... Sabai
Sabai, i think that you should know that mercury thermometer ... Tbg
To taras22; i am actually one of the other guys that test ca ... Audionewfie
Another newbie post. seeeeeeeeeems mighty suspicious! :) Fiddler
To mr. audionewfie in case you missed this part of a post t ... Taras22
Let's get back to the sound of the teos, can we? Tbg
Tbg, you state: "i think you have greatly exaggerated c ... Sabai
Ghostinmachine, i doubt anyone would be so foolish as to tak ... Sabai
Sabai, mercury vapor is hard to produce. it is, however, one ... Tbg
I can understand how someone can say a cable added "wei ... Bullot
Ghostinmachine, here is more information on galinstan from p ... Sabai
Tbg, with all due respect, this is getting way off topic, bu ... Sabai
Sabai, yes it is way off topic. how good are these cables? Tbg