I use a power regenerator to control the voltage to my turntable.
That way, I get voltage control, and cleaner power for the rest of my system, instead of a separate, and costly, turntable power supply. |
You don't need them. A purpose built controller for your specific turntable is a big plus, however. |
Thanks for getting back to me regarding my post. |
I'm currently using a VIZ Isotap II WP-27A which is an isolated tranformer and also starts putting out voltage at 25 VAC and goes up to 150 VAC in 5 volt intervals with my Technics 1200 Mk 2 turntable. I do this so the Technics will get exactly 120 VAC as there are power issues where I live. The voltage from the wall can spike up to 127 volts and goes down to 118.
So far I think I have a lower noise floor with Technics plugged into the Viz Isotap. These Isotaps can be found for under $50 sometimes. |
I have an SME 10/V arm combo,the power cord is a Shunyata Annaconda Helix going into a Shunyata 8 on a dedicated 20 amp line for the front end components.
THis is much better than when I ran a stock power cord, then a cheaper upgraded PC. The Hydra is the icing on the cake.
I would suggest you try upgrading your power cord then try a conditioner,as opposed to trying a power conditioner with your TT stock power cord.
The stock power cord is the bottleneck, and my take (after non dedicated lines)on why power conditioners don't get much respect. |
I find that good power cords are a great asset, power conditioners a liability |
I have an SME 20 here, so I'll take a closer look at how it works. Meanwhile, I will revise my earlier post by saying that it all depends on the turntable you own.
If your particular turntable doesn't have a controller that regenerates power, maybe a power conditioner is in order. Otherwise, I cannot see any benefit. |
This is an engineering question. Any recommendation must be qualified pending additional data, as the OP provided insufficient information to support any blanket statement.
Is your local power dirty and/or does it suffer frequent voltage fluctuations? Does your LP-12 lack a regenerating power controller? If so, a conditioner or regenerator may be beneficial.
That dedicated circuit isolates your TT from other circuits in your house. It doesn't isolate it from the neighbors, the shopping mall across town or the crappy equipment at the local sub-station. In fact, dedicated circuits (and Stringreen's high end power cord) connect you even more closely to those problems.
* FWIW, my TT operates on battery power. It's only connected to the grid when I'm recharging the batteries. If I leave the recharging circuit connected when playing music there are audible side effects, even if the recharger itself is powered off. Noise from the grid is pervasive.
Conclusion: the more electrically isolated your TT, the better it should sound. The particulars of how best to achieve that vary with the individual situation.
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Dougdeacon nailed it.
I use an AC re-generator dedicated solely to my turntables, which do not have separate controllers, to isolate them from the mains and feed them a constant 115v. I found this approach to sound better than plugging them into a high-end power conditioner or directly into the wall. |
Great point Lacee. I'm also with Dougdeacon-isolate and condition. |
I use a lenco and hence an AC motor. I have found the only factor impacting sound is the frequency of the power supply.-being a heavy platter idler design impact due to power quality is not much and something i could not really discern
I use a regenerator primarily to keep the frequency stable and that really helps |
To Wrm57
Can you give more details about the amelioration of the sound when using a re-generator instead of directly plugging to the wall .
I have a lenco too.
Thanks. |
Hi Gilles130,
I use a Monarchy AC-regenerator, which was very highly recommended by Jean Nantais, who rebuilt my Lenco to what he calls Reference Mk II status. At least with this turntable, the re-generator results in better focus of instruments, crisper transients, and improved perception of micro-detail. It's a subtle difference but clearly audible.
Monarchy is a small company in San Francisco that's been making amps for quite a while. Their re-generator is well- made and inexpensive (around $6-700 as I recall, sold direct). Though it only outputs 100 watts and accommodates just two plugs, it's perfect for powering one or two turntables. You can vary voltage output in 1-volt steps from 110 to 120, and select 50hz or 60hz.
Jean outputs to his Lenco at 110v because, he says, that's the spec for Lenco motors. I use 115v because I have a Brinkmann Oasis plugged into it, too, which wants to see 115v.
On the OP question of whether or not isolate turntables from the power mains, I'll add that Brinkmann sells a tubed power supply that's supposed to improve sound in large part by isolating the TT motor from the vagaries of AC mains, according to their whitepaper on the subject. The price for that item is around $4,300. The Monarchy does something similar for a small fraction of the cost, and you can use it with more than one turntable.
Best,
Bill
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Same as you. Wall, no conditioner. |
I too use a Monarchy AC regenerator to power my TT motor(VPI Scout/300 RPM) but I also use a Walker Audio Motor controller AC regenerator in between the Monarchy and the Scout motor. Yes two AC regenerators may seem like overkill but the results are more than expected and the Walker is specifically designed for TT motors.
I also use the Monarchy AC regenerator to provide power to the power strip that my Synergistic Research Galileo MPC's are plugged into. I've also changed out the "budget" outlet on the back of the Monarchy for an Oyaide R1 with very nice improvements :) |
If you really think about it, why would a turntable be immune to the vagaries of the power?
If you think your cd player or preamp sound better with a decent power cord, or that you've discovered they sound better in a power conditioner,why would anyone think that the turntable wouldn't benefit also?
Then again if everything sounds fine plugged into the wall, then the turntable will sound just as good as the rest of the gear that's plugged into the multi outlet sound bar.
I've been spoiled for the last ten years or so with dedicated lines, fancy power cords and power conditioners,and for me there's no turning back.
A Sutherland PHD phono stage was the only item that I owned that was off the grid,and anyone who has experience with battery power has heard the difference running off the grid can make.
Running my Steelhead with an Annaconda Helix power cord into a Hydra 8 to my ears sounds just as quiet as the HPD did.
To some it may seem foolish to spend so much money on power products, but for me they have made the gear plugged into it sound much better.
And it can remain in use if I consider any upgrades to any of the other gear plugged into it.
I used to be on the merry go round for years hopping from one component to the next and even replacing the whole system trying to get to the audio nirvana that the reviewers say is just out there if you buy the new..?
I've found that the sound I was searching for was right there in front of me.
I only had to give it the clean power it needed to perform to it's full potential. |
Dear Jedinite, I am not familiar with your AC device, but I am fairly certain it is
not a power regenerator and that it will not do what you think it does to
protect your tt from line voltage variation. At $50, even used, I am guessing
it is an adjustable isolation transformer; for a given stable input AC voltage, it
is able to adjust the output voltage up or down, but it is not an active device.
Thus, when your line voltage sags or surges, the output of your device will
also sag or surge by a proportionate amount. You may be realizing some
benefits from its function as an isolation transformer, however, which is
mainly why you perceive an improvement.
I also think that the Lenco motor does benefit from an active AC regenerator
that has fine control on AC frequency and voltage. Controlling AC frequency
up or down by a few Hz can be used to establish exact correct speed.
Regenerating AC and fine control of voltage and voltage polarity will allow the
motor to run as quietly as possible. In an idler drive turntable, this is mightily
valuable, as there is at least an indirect path for motor noise (in the form of
drive shaft vibration) from motor to platter. I have observed some of these
benefits with my Lenco. For one thing, speed stability is markedly improved;
you can see it with the KAB strobe device. Plus these turntable dedicated
motor controllers isolate your tt from your other audio gear, and vice-versa,
so the motor noise does not get back to your local AC supply to your audio
system.
As to a typical AC regenerator, like those made by PS Audio, those can be of
value if your AC line voltage is "dirty", like if you live in NYC or
similar congested area, or if you have heavy appliances running off your
house AC. But the PS Audio does not permit fine control of AC frequency for
turntable-specific applications. |
Nmmusician, Why isn't it redundant to run the Monarchy off the Walker? Seems the Monarchy is already an active device capable of regenerating AC. What does the Walker add, in theory? In practice? |
To be clear, the Walker is powered by the Monarchy which is itself run directly from the wall via an Oyaide R0 outlet/WPC-Z wall mount system and a PS Audio Lab ll power cable. The Monarchy is indeed a 100 watt true AC regenerator but with limited voltage/frequency flexibility whereas the Walker has both 33 1/3 and 45 RPM continuous speed controls, motor phase reverse switch and a custom/propietary AC Regeneration waveform specifically designed for AC motors. It also employs input and output isolation transformers and is limited to a total of 25 watts output.
Initially I connected the Walker to the Monarchy out of sheer component location convenience but the results were a more refined and tuneful presentation with more black and solid background. I then upgraded the power cord between the Walker and the Monarchy with even more of the same attributes initially noted.
The Walker is a much more refined and purpose built AC regenerator specifically for TT motors with near complete isolation from the AC grid and the Monarchy is a minimum frills although extremely well built and highly recommended general purpose low wattage AC regenerator.
Cheers |
