Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
01-13-11
For thousands of years it was believed that the earth was th ... Halcro
01-13-11
Interesting thoughts. first, though, a question: how did you ... Hodu
01-13-11
Ummm.... first you posit a "new" way of looking a ... Lewm
01-13-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Halcro: When I " arrived " to this forum ( 6-7 years ago ) I posted several times the main and critical importance that the tonearm/cartridge had in an analog playback system and several times too from everyone I received the same answer: wrong the more important link is the TT.
Over the years and through my ( and other ones. ) " insistence " on the subject today almost all agree on the main importance of the tonearm /cartridge in that analog system.
You can see/read that I'm not speaking on tonearm alone but in tonearm/cartridge as a UNIT.
Then for me the centre of an analog system is not the tonearm but the cartridge/tonearm UNIT that between other things represent the source that IMHO is the more important ( the source ) audio link in any audio system: the centre of an audio system.
The source is IMHO the " King " in an audio system chain where all the other audio links ( including our each one skills for right system overall set up. ) are " only " subjects/slaves at King's service.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-13-11
Thanks hodu, after the initial thread was started (with the ... Halcro
01-13-11
Dear lew, my thesis is that once the immovable and isolated ... Halcro
01-13-11
Dear raul, you are certainly correct that you have constantl ... Halcro
01-13-11
"the tonearm is now the centre of this ‘turntable ... Dover
01-14-11
Interesting views. most think, that a turntable, no matter ... Syntax
01-14-11
Turntable chassis, motor drive (idler, direct, belt), beari ... Thuchan
01-14-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Halcro: I see.
+++++ " I am claiming that without the precondition of the immovable and isolated tonearm BASE, any tonearm/cartridge combination will be compromised to some degree. " ++++++
well over the time at least five times I claimed the importance and influence of the arm board in a cartridge quality performance. I did not claim exactly what you are doing.
Now, there are some different subjects on your statement and I will try to comment by separate:
++++ will be compromised to some degree. +++++
IMHO from the very first moment that we mount a cartridge in a tonearm headshell exist a compromise between ( at least ) the cartridge body resonance point against the headshell kind of build material that has its own resonances.
From this very first stage all what happen between the cartridge, tonearm and TT is full of compromises including our each one skills to overall cartridge/tonearm set up even room temperature is a " compromise " on cartridge quality performance level.
Certainly the arm board link is an additional compromise with its own trade-offs.
Isolated BASE: well this IMHO is a TT manufacturer responsability where the tonearm manufacturers has to deal with.
In this regard I'm a proposal of stand alone arb board towers for at least all the TT resonances can't transmit through the arm board or if the TT manufacturer prefer the arm board integrated then that will be isolated from the TT it self.
In either way the TT manufacturer has to take care that the arm board be self isolated someway for the UNIT can't be disturbed by this audio link.
As other subjects/factors in audio this arm board base isolation always is desired but till today never achieved.
In the mean time IMHO the best a tonearm manufacturer can do is try to isolate the tonearm it self from the arm board.
Problem with this thread subject is that normally the TT manufacturer is different from the tonearm one and IMHO even if both were the same each manufacturar/designer thinks and fix his priorities in a different way with different targets.
Other aspect on all these is that the cartridge quality performance level on playback is surrounded by a lot of different an important factors where the arm board is only one more. Where can we put on importance level the arm board base subject? , this could be very subjective because we have to rank all the factors that have any influence in the cartridge performance and determine the precise " weight " each factor contribute against cartridge quality performance playback level.
I don't know for sure where you want to arrive with this subject and the only thing I can tell you is that some one has to take care about with more care that the one used too.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-14-11
Copernicus was a twit anyway. Lewm
01-14-11
Come on lewm, copernicus certainly was no twit. if still bou ... Dertonarm
01-14-11
Thanks for your thoughts syntax. cheers henry Halcro
01-14-11
Dear thuchan, yes, micro seiki knew a thing or two about ana ... Halcro
01-15-11
Dear raul, i think you and i are in agreement on these thing ... Halcro
01-15-11
Dear dertonarm, no......galileo didn't have a happy life wit ... Halcro
01-15-11
Dt, i was joking of course. this discourse was getting enti ... Lewm
01-15-11
Dear henry, your remark above to thuchan re the sx8000 is in ... Lewm
01-15-11
Dt, i was joking of course. this discourse was getting enti ... Lewm
01-15-11
Dear halcro, the turntable, arm and cartridge do form one me ... Dertonarm
01-15-11
Regards, dover: you wrote: "there should be no cantilev ... Timeltel
01-15-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Halcro: To your first question IMHO not only a budget analog rig can't beats a digital source ( DVD-A ) but even top analog rig can't do it so " easily ".
Digital source IMHO is approaching the begin of " maturity " time where even this technology can tell you if your system is " right or wrong " somewhere.
On your other question I think that a top analog rig can't approach the sound coming from a master tape. Both mediums are way different and IMHO I think that we can enjoy both.
I heard several times RTR tapes and till today " I'm not crazy about ", maybe because I'm equalized to the LPs performance kind of sound or maybe because I was not " exposed " to much time to that medium or maybe because I don't care seriously about.
Now, the digital source and the RTR " technology " is way way beter mediums to reproduce music than our beloved analog one ( LPs. ) that is so imperfect that I can't understand, today, why we like it so much ( other that we own thousands of LPs. ) when the " medium " has so many inaccuracies/distortions/noise.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-15-11
Halcro sez ""the tone arm is the heart of a turnta ... Blackburn
01-15-11
Dear lew, my proposition is that ideally the base for the to ... Halcro
01-15-11
Dear dertonarm, i agree.... but only once the stylus is in t ... Halcro
01-15-11
Dear timeltel, consider yourself excused. i always welcome y ... Halcro
01-15-11
Raul, your last post is spot on imo!!! i agree about there b ... 1gear
01-15-11
Dear raul, may i invite you to munich. if you listen to a re ... Thuchan
01-15-11
Well raul, you've finally managed to shock me. digital bette ... Halcro
01-15-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Thuchan: I'm just waiting for the flight ticket!
You know that that will be a pleasure, thank's for your invitation even if I return with out any of your items!
Oh! that famous " warmth " on RTR and LPs. I always wonder why normally I can't heard it in a live events ( near field. ).
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-16-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Halcro: ++++++ " I disagree with you emphatically about the inaccuracies/distortions/noise inherent in the vinyl playback process. " ++++++
come on Halcro, in your other thread you posted we ( you and me ) agree on the same and there between other things we talk about so many " compromises " that the analog rig/Lps has.
Please you can't tell me that the RIAA equalization is an accurate process where the LP recording pass through not only one time but twice!, you can't deny the high noise that produce a phono stage trying to amplify the signal of a LOMC cartridge and the distortions due to a mistmatch loading impedance on that cartridge or loading capacitance and impedance in a MM/MI cartridge, you can't deny all the additional distortions that contribute each one of us cartridge/tonearm tiny " deviations " from a perfect cartridge/tonearm overall set up, you can't deny the " errors " that comes with cartridges like: non centered cantilevers and not centered stylus in the cantilever or the different output level in cartridge channels and of course all the mistakes on the LP production/matering process or even the un-centered LP.
You know I can go on and on on all those inacuracies/distortions/noise that unfortunately are part of the LP music enjoyment.
As I posted: I can't understand why we love so much!
The digital source or RTR have a lot less inacuracies/distortions and noise level. Halcro, this IMHO is a fact and are facts where I can't see how you can argue against it.
On RTR subject I never posted I was hearing Master Tapes but anyway I'm not against Master Tapes.
+++++ " why in fact are you wasting so much time and energy in testing cartridges and headshells? " ++++
easy, as you I love to hear/listen my LPs.
+++++ " Why are you not contributing many more posts in the Digital Forums? " +++++
maybe it's time to do it and learn about.
Now, what you are hearing on analog or digital is different from what I'm hearing today, I mean at resolution level. Please read this and especially the end part of the thread where I posted some thoughts/experiences on the digital source:
forum.audiogon#Rauliruegas
I was not different from you of what I thinked about digital source till those system changes. For some reasons that I can't explain for sure system distortions affect more the digital medium than the LPs ones maybe because the higher distortions in the Lp medium it self I don't know. What I know is that today I really enjoy the digital source and not only the Hres DVDA/SACD but redbook too.
I'm not saying and not posted that the digital medium is superior to LPs or that is a perfect medium but IMHO is very good and well recorded digital software is something any one can enjoy as much as the Lps ones with the right set up.
For me the time to diminish the digital source already pass on and in my case I'm happy with because it is a " new " alternative to enjoy music.
+++++ " my faith in your ears has been significantly diminished .. " ++++++
well, sorry to hear that but I still trust in my audio/music skills where my ears are part of it as are all my first hand experiences.
In the other side I still trust in your ears.
Regards and enjoiy the music,
raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-16-11
Dear halcro, getting "rid" of the turntables plint ... Dertonarm
01-16-11
Dear raul, i will wait for you at the airport from monday o ... Thuchan
01-16-11
Halcro, i agree with you - something must have been happened ... Thuchan
01-16-11
Halcro, you seem to be satisfied with how your jvc project t ... Blackburn
01-16-11
Thuchan if your going to hang around the air port for raul t ... Blackburn
01-16-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Thuchan and Halcro: I'm still an analog/LP music lover and I think I will be for years to come but now that I " discovery " the digital source I'm trying to learn at least two subjects:
why analog people " hate " or diminished the digital source and second to understand what " happen " under digital domain: what we can hear on the digital domain/what's wrong or good.
I think I know all the LP/analog experience advantages and disadvantages and I for now am a happy analog/LP person.
Try to cofront in serious way the digital " experience " is something where for we analog guys the LP has a big handicap against the digital today status ( on our home audio systems. ) because analog/LP is what we like, it is how our " ears " are accustom to enjoy music at home and even our audio system set up was made for analog/LP playback including what we choosed for electronic audio items and speakers: everything that surrounded goes in favor of analog not digital.
Even that IMHO the digital ( 24/176.8 and in less way the redbook ) has some main advantages: widest frequency response and dynamic range than analog, lower distortions, lower noise level, better accuracy level, easy to set up, etc. etc.
Disadvantages?, I really can't see or I'm really unaware of any important disadvantages other that the ones I name it and that are not a digital technology disadvantage but an unfriendly scenario where the digital source has to " work ".
IMHO a well recorded digital source has nothing to ask against LP ( everything the same. ). Yes there are CDs and DVDAs that are bad ones but this fact is true on the analog side where we have bad recordings too.
Yes, it is true that on CDs the high frequency extreme is really limited and is an important drawback but well recorded CDs ( with upsampling ) performs acceptable and at good level.
Even that at the other frequency extreme where belongs the bass the CDs are a lot better that our beloved LP.
When we take a DVDA ( 24/176.8 0r 192khz. ) the CDs main drawback just disappear and instead of that " appear " what for us LP lovers was and is losted in the CD experience.
In theory a digital recording add less " non recorded information " than the LP recordings and this IMHO could tell us that a digital source is truer to the recording than a LP.
Something important that I learned about digital experience is not heard it thinking to find out/looking for a " similar " LP quality performance.
This is a big error/mistake, we have to understand the digital playback: what is inside and what is not, , we need a different reference say: live music.
All the overall ( non in the recording ) additional LP " artefacts/contrivance " do not comes in the digital source and with its lower distortions/noise level the digital music experience is " different " from analog/LP, so why are we waiting for a similar experience?: no way.
A big disadvantage that well recorded digital medium has is that with digital playback " errors/mistakes or lessen designs " in our electronics or room/speakers and audio system set up comes out and many times these is what we are hearing and we think that the culprit of all these is the digital medium/recording when in reality the problem belongs inside anywere on the audio system.
It is difficult to think in a source with lower noise/distortion levels that digital and this characteristic IMHO expose everything in any audio system especially the dedicated analog set ups.
Am I in love with digital?, not really but now that I'm starting to undestand it and learning on the whole subject I accepted and enjoyed as a " new " good music source alternative. Unfortunately I don't have enough software but I'm trying to buy and find out what I like on music different genre.
Thuchan, our tonearm project is running in " solid " way and almost finished.
To accept in wide way the digital alternative only means that: accept it, my love for analog/LP does not change.
Gentlemans, the digital alternative is IMHO a serious alternative that could be worth for some of you to give it an opportuniy.
It is like the SS alternative or the DD-TT alternative or the MM/MI cartridge alternative or the linear tracking alternative: it is a good alternative that IMHO is better that what we are accustomed to think.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-16-11
Raul, for me digital is an alternative reserved for when i w ... Lewm
01-16-11: Rauliruegas
Dear Lewm: Certainly not I'm involve deep with analog/LP odyssey. My target is to take full domain ot that technology to find out/looking for the " pinnacle " that this technology can show us and that till today perhaps we know only the 80%-90% of the 100% the technology can/could achieve.
That's why I ( years ago ) decided to design a Phonolinepreamp, a tonearm, a cartridge an a TT that could help me to attain that main/top target.
I know for sure that the analog/LP " experience " is not only alive but waiting for each one of us new discoveries.
Lewm, I think that for we can appreciate what the digital technology can help us to enjoy music first that all we need IMHO the right attitude, we need to change a little about the whole digital subject.
Certainly you don't have that attitude yet but you and other persons like Halcro had not the " right " attitude about the MM/MI alternative either however both of you already have great experiences with the MM/MI alternative.
I think that the " time " will comes sooner or latter for each one of us.
Lewm, I'm not promoting the digital alternative. I'm and still follow the analog/LP alternative, no single doubt about.
Dear Thuchan, yes you are interpreting not only so deeply but in the wrong direction.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Rauliruegas (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
01-16-11
Yeah, and what would freud have to say about the need to hav ... Bjesien
01-16-11
What would freud say about all and each of us? who cares? he ... Inna
01-16-11
Dear bjesien, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. and a tonea ... Lewm
01-16-11
Don't be so sure about cigars and tonearms; they may never b ... Inna
01-16-11
Halcro, talking about solid and level base, is your wall sh ... Jaspert
01-16-11
Lewn, everything is as it is. i get that. just being fooli ... Bjesien
01-17-11
Yes jaspert, the shelf being cantilevered on aluminium brack ... Halcro
01-17-11
Blackburn, interesting question? i've never actually heard t ... Halcro
01-17-11
Dear dertonarm, i would have thought the same before i tried ... Halcro
01-17-11
Dear thuchan, i hope it's not i??!! cheers henry Halcro
|
|
