Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
11-16-08: Buconero117
Steam will put VPI machines to shame, and also the Keith Monks units. Stick with microfiber clothes and be done with it. Don't put the microfiber cloths in the washing machine, it will pick up lint. Hand wash and rinse.
Buconero117 (Threads | Answers)
11-16-08: Dmccombs
Vanmeter,
It sounds like you can get by without the RCM. I personally like the convenience of using the RCM while steaming, but if you don't mind holding the record while you steam, I see no problem with not using the RCM.
I had a microfiber cloth that left white residue, but not all do. It sounds like if you get a different microfiber cloth you will be all set.
Regards,
Darrell
Dmccombs (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
11-16-08: Grimsbylad
I think this depends on how you use your RCM.I have been cleaning albums for 40 years and have tried just about everything. I have found that using a RCM in conjunction with disc doctor products and a good regim will get a record as clean as possible.
Grimsbylad (Answers)
11-16-08: Thorman
I Tell ya! I am totally amazed at how well my little Shark Steam cleaner works and even though I built my own RCMachine I have no intention of using it ..Now its a conversation piece.I am that happy with the Steam cleaning..I set up a jig in my basement and can clean 10 records ( including a rinse cycle ) in less 15 or 20 minutes and now albums only needs periodic touch up ( light particles ) with a Discwasher or dry brush...If you have the bucks I am sure its great to have a $2000 RCM but if you are retired ( like me ) or can't afford a machine.For less than $50 you can clean to your hearts content....Very simple to use too.......
Thorman (Reviews | Threads | Answers)
11-16-08: Vanmeter
Well, I had a hearing test about two years ago and was told I have a huge, huge, hole in the octave around 2k...I don't notice it except sometimes life just sounds like I am in a tunnel, but I suspect my brain compensates most of the time. My top end is fine. But they said the loss was likely from being around loud noise...I was a DJ for years wearing headphones, and then had a recording studio, on top of playing in bands, and am now paying for it. I really am more concerned about not standing a foot away from my (very loud) RCM for even a minute or less. So I'm happy that the steam seems to work well without the RCM, and records even seem to sound better to me without the vacuum. Of course, from a man admitting hearing loss, but I do think I'm not missing anything.
Oh, and I'm 37 - take care of your hearing!!!
Vanmeter (Answers)
11-16-08: Sonofjim
I use steam in conjunction with the 16.5 and I feel it offers a couple of advantages. I think with the platter spinning, I'm distributing the steam more evenly which also distributes heat more evenly and may reduce the risk of warping. I also believe that vacuuming off the residue is synergistic with the steaming process. Wiping the fluid off with anything seems to be a risk for pushing some of this gunk back into the grooves to me. I have no doubt that steaming without a RCM works fine but I think if you already have one it's more convenient and probably more effective to use it. I plug my ears when I turn my vacuum on. The duration of the noise is not long enough to be a likely cause of hearing damage anyway. It's not just decibel level, it's decibel level and duration that lead to damage. I come from a long line of farmers. Even low level engine noise all day long can be devastating. You're RCM for a few seconds at a time with your ears plugged, no problem.
Sonofjim (System | Threads | Answers)
11-16-08: Btstrg
What is the procedure for steam cleaning a record?? How far to you hold the steamer from the LP ?? Can someone either post or email me the procedure for steam cleaning, What steam cleaning I should get and were can I get one?
Thanks
Btstrg (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
11-16-08: Thorman
Btstrg: No major tecnique..Just go to Wallyworld or any discount type store and find a hand help steam cleaner..I found the Shark works very well with the ( aprox ) 4"wide attatchment..I try to keep the steamer about 3"-4" away from the record suface..Other than that it just takes a couple tries ( Practice on garbage record for )..I rigged a set up where ( record hangs on a rod ) so you can get at both sides ( with out handling ) ..and I steam both sides
( using Demin. water )and once steaming is done I spray a rinse (seperate spray bottle so it drips free )and them remove and lightly wipe with a Micro fiber cloth ..Records look prisinte once completed..You can't remove sctatches but just about everything else.
Thorman (Reviews | Threads | Answers)
11-17-08: Crem1
Vameter : Do you know that lots of free Steam cleaning tips and explanations have already been covered in Two Steam Cleaning Threads , one currently active the other discontined. Both are worth reading.
The advantages of using a RCM were parced in these threads as were those that wanted to steam w/o the use of a RCM. From my perspective , steaming significantly loosens pressing greases that entrap all sorts of household gunk.This only gets worse as time moves on. The advantage of a RCM is that once the entraped materials are released ( either with or without record cleaning fluids ) a RCM Quickly, sucks up the released compounds. Of course , you can disregard using a RCM and rely on micro cloths. But, Should you own a RCM why not use it ? As for machine noise,a pair of inexpensive noise protectors works quite well.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
11-17-08
Because, i swear, in addition to the noise issue, i really t ... Vanmeter
11-17-08: Oilmanmojo
There are a couple other strings on this forum related to steam cleaning particularly the first one that will outline several iterations and methods to steam clean. Suggest you look at those too.
Oilmanmojo (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
11-18-08: Robrush
Buy a lazy susan. IKEA and other home stores sell them for around $10. It is basically a round wooden platform with a base made of bearings. I put a microfibre cloth on the top, drop an LP on there and spin it while steaming. Works perfectly and great for getting even coverage of steam.
Robrush (System | Threads | Answers)
11-18-08: Tigerwoodkhorns
Vanmeter,
You have already answered your question. I had a VPI 16.5 and sold it a while ago. I now steam and it is the way to go. I use the 90 degree attachment and just place the record on a clean towel on the counter top (like the video on youtube).
Here is why I prefer not to use the VPI machine. I will steam for a few hours and clean many records at once. I like to listen to the records while I am cleaning. Hard to do with the RCM noise but rather nice while steaming.
The Microfiber cloths work great and remove all of the water, so I do not need the RCM.
Tigerwoodkhorns (Threads | Answers)
01-06-09: Vanmeter
Okay...I've been steaming for about two months now, and REALLY like the sound improvment. However, I'm getting a lot of dust still on the stylus after playing an album side, something I haven't dealt with in 20 years of having an RCM. Is there a way around this - I really like just using the microfiber cloths - or should I reconsider some combination of steam and RCM? It's bad enough that sometimes the sound is distorted, as the stylus is mistracking - I assume that's slight moisture in the groove causing the gunk to cling to the stylus.
Vanmeter (Answers)
01-07-09: Funkwrench
Vanmeter - for what it is worth I have been experimenting with Pledge dust and alergen unscented dry cloths available at Target and at my local supermarket. These disposable cloths appear to me to be without any obvious chemical additives like scent or aloe. I am using them as a dust and lint remover just before I drop the needle. Perhaps they can solve the gunk problem you are experiencing from (you suspect) the other micro-fiber cloths. I have also seen some random material residue when using the Wal-mart or auto detailing cloths. I am not suggesting you stop using the cloth-cloths - they seem to work very, very well - I am only saying that you might add a simple extra step. For the moment, I have replaced the carbon fiber record brush I WAS using with the pledge wipes. So far so good, with NO static issues.
Please carry on with your steam experiments and report back to the this thread or the steam-cleaning thread.
regards,
Joe
Funkwrench (Answers)
01-07-09: Dan_ed
I assume that's slight moisture in the groove causing the gunk to cling to the stylus.
That is exactly why I still use my DIY RCM after steaming. Nothing else lifts that suspended crud better than vacuuming. And you don't have to wait for the lp to dry before playing because it is dry after vacuuming.
Dan_ed (System | Threads | Answers)
01-07-09: Piedpiper
I can't help but think that the RCM is an advantage, just I can't help but think the those Pledge cloths are charged with stuff that is best kept off your records. It's possible that the degradation that you hear after vacuuming is due to the static that is generated from the vacuuming process. If you use the RCM to the point of utter dryness the disc will come off staticky and quite attractive to dust in the air. I find a destaticing device such as Mapleshade's Ionocalst or Walker Audio's Talisman invaluable at this point just prior to playing. Alternatively, there are those who swear by playing their records wet, which of course precludes static, although your water better be ultra-pure, an important advantage however you clean.
Dealer disclosure.
Piedpiper (System | Threads | Answers)
01-07-09: Vanmeter
I don't think I could stomach the idea of playing records wet. The steam seems to work so well...I catch myself constantly forgetting I'm listening to vinyl since the noise floor seems to drop so much and the sound becomes somewhat 3D. I really do think I hear some degradation of that using the RCM after steaming, but I can't imagine why unless, as you say, it's related to static. And it could be my imagination, frankly.
I mentioned wetness in the groove, but this gunk last night was on a disc steamed two weeks ago or more that I had let air dry, so it must be more than just dampness in the groove remaining. There's bound to be a "best of both worlds" situation, it's just finding it, right? :)
Vanmeter (Answers)
01-07-09
I should say, on a disc i had let air dry after wiping down ... Vanmeter
01-07-09: Stltrains
Vanmeter it sounds like you are charging your lps with static some how which is drawing in dust particles from the air. I use a Furutech De Stat after my steam cleaning process. De Stat is a little expensive but it works very well. Also good for cables and other things in your system that develop static. I might be going overboard but i bought 3 of Orecks air purifier units. These things really work they capture dust, mold, bacteria, viruses and fungus from the air in your home, the wife hardly needs to dust as much now. One of them is very close to my TT.
I agree with you wholeheartedly with the sound of lps after a good steam cleaning regiment. Clean, clear, quite, and wide open sound.
Stltrains (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
01-07-09: Dgarretson
I just started steam cleaning records with a hand-held Shark-- a great little $40 1000W steamer from Target on-line-- and a VPI 16.5 RCM. I can't imagine using steam without a RCM to ensure even application of steam and vacuum dry afterwards.
Dgarretson (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
01-08-09
I have noticed that the buildup problem seems to be totally ... Vanmeter
01-10-09: Vanmeter
I tried steaming and mirofiber-ing one side of an LP last night, and steaming and RMC-ing the other, then played the towel side...big blog of white (and this isn't a dust bunny, it's a congealed blob) crud on the stylus that needed wet cleaning to get off - the ME wouldn't touch it.
Then, I played the other side, 45 minutes to an hour later, and after being face down on the mat. No gunk. Sad to say I think I'm answering my own question yet again...but I still feel like I'm losing some of that airiness when I RCM. There's got to be an answer to this (that isn't spelled Loricraft, which is out of my price range)...
Vanmeter (Answers)
01-10-09
How are you using the me? i've never found anything that the ... Dan_ed
01-10-09: Dougdeacon
I have seen one stylus and cantilever (out of 15-20) so badly gunked up that even aggressive scrubbing with an ME wouldn't clean it.
To revive that cartridge I used ultra-fine sandpaper, Linn's old trick. That loosened the crud up, then the usual ME + dry brush finished the job.
It took months of play with no cleaning for the cartridge to get that stubbornly dirty, but it is possible.
---
FWIW, our (steamless) LP cleaning regimen (slow, costly and with expensive RCM) "never" leaves anything in the grooves. I do sometimes find a trace of dry, loose fluff on the stylus at the end of a side, but since any given LP will sometimes leave a trace of fluff and sometimes not, it's presumably airborne fluff attracted by static during play.
Should there be any fluff buildup during play we hear the degradation of HF extension, speed and "air" near side-end. That might be what you're hearing, and if you don't de-static before play (as Dan_Ed correctly advised for its own sonic benefits) it's more likely to occur.
It's even more important to de-static and dry brush *after* play before returning the LP to its sleeve, else dust collection is pretty much guaranteed.
Dougdeacon (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
01-10-09
That makes sense, doug. i'll experiment some more... Vanmeter
01-10-09: Dan_ed
Doug is certainly the expert when it comes to using the ME. The technique I learned from him was to trim a piece into a taper, sort of like one of those foam paint brushes, and use the thin part just like a brush instead of a dipping motion, which I never use anymore. Think brushing paint on the sides of the stylus carefully from top to bottom. It does take a reasonably steady hand and good visibility. This method should have easily taken that gummy crud off, but you would probably have had to just cut away that hunk of junk.
Keep working this with the steam and rcm, I still believe it will work very well for you once you find the techniques that work in your environment.
Also, you mentioned using a home-made cleaning solution. What this is made of, and how and when you use it in relation to the steaming step can have an impact on results. I like the idea of using an alcohol, or some other suspension, based cleaner along with the steam. This I find to keep the crud in suspension so it can be vacuumed up immediately. What works for me is to steam and then apply an alcohol based cleaner (AIVS in my case) while the LP is still wet from steam. Others report better results by applying the cleaner before steaming.
Dan_ed (System | Threads | Answers)
01-14-09: Crem1
I wish everyone the best, but some of you are reacting to challenges that have already met & resolved as far as to steam cleaning. It is a fact that RCM's have a place in steam cleaning , but that does not preclude the use of steam only. For instance, the VPI RCM's work well with steam cleaning. They suck off lots of loosened materal far quicker that a Loricraft. But that does not mean a Loricraft can not be admended to the process.
The situation , the materals , the record's condition all interact with the outcome. Don't underestimate the importance of the condition of the pressing at the time of manufacture , even which pressing machine used, contribute to what resolution we hear from a given LP. I do suggest a read of most of the initial steaming thread , until the flamers . Lots of FYI buried there.
As always take care when accepting advice. Your prudence can save one from falling into a black hole. A comment I liked was from a person that claimed steamers don't make steam but water vapor koz steam is not visable to the eye. So, when one sees vapor no steam is present. Perhaps, but in the big picture its the steam (unseen) immediately followed by vapors and heated water spray that combine to loosen the grunge. Using a record cleaning solution can make for a greater improvement depending on the materials pressed between the grove and the output pressure of the steamer. Besides the idea is to use the properties of steam and water to bring you closer to the groves and hopefully the music. All steam could blow a hole thru the LP, something that can not happen with consumer grade hand-held steaming units , less garmet steamers that pose a danger to the LP due the surface area they heat. RCM certianly can significantly improve the listening experience ; they are the ultimate sucking machines.
All the Best.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-03-09: Vanmeter
I think I understand what you mean, Crem, as I've gone back and forth over the past couple of weeks switching between RCM and microfiber. And I've found that either way on some records I get gunk, sometimes that isn't gone after 2 or 3 plays. And only on some records, but while I had thought it was the end step causing it, I really am starting to think it's either something from pressing time coming loose with the steam or else...smoke, or something. At any rate, I'm glad to have come to the point I've seen for myself that I'm getting the same results basically with or without the RCM!
Vanmeter (Answers)
02-04-09
Vanmeter : with respect to micro-cloths "softer the bet ... Crem1
02-04-09: Vinyladdict
My steam-enhanced steps:
1 - AudioQuest Carbon Fiber Brush to remove "big stuff"
2 - Remove line of "big stuff" with Nagaoka Rolling 152
3 - Apply Mobile Fidelity Enzyme Solution, work into grooves using Osage Listener Select Brush (best I've found)
4 - Let Enzyme work for 5 minutes, scrubbing once or twice during.
5 - Apply steam for about 3 revolutions while scrubbing.
6 - Vaccuum off fluids with VPI 16.5
7 - Apply Mobile Fidelity Rinse with second Listener Select Brush
8 - Vaccuum rinse with VPI 16.5
9 - Repeat steps 7 & 8
This has yielded the best results I've ever had using a variety of fluids over the years.
Vinyladdict (Threads | Answers)
02-04-09: Tbg
I don't have much use for steam cleaning, but I have found a modified vacuuming tube made of delrin by Walker Audio so greatly improves my VPI 16.5 as to replace even my string cleaning machine. I don't want to enter into any virtues of steam versus RCMs, but you all need to be aware of this improvement. The tube has been temporarily unavailable, but that is supposed to change.
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
02-04-09
Sounds very interesting thg. whats the big difference in the ... Stltrains
02-04-09: Crem1
Tbg, You stated " I don't have much use for steam cleaning ". May I inquire , is that based on personal experience ? Would you give a more specified outline of your objections ? The reason I ask is that reviewing you rig I am surprised that steam cleaning was such a negative experience. I would have guessed a different outcome ,perhaps, that you would have experienced greater "air" & extended "high end" in playback at minium.
I join Stltrains in my interest in the Walker tube vs say a Loricraft. All the best.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-04-09: Tbg
Stltrains, St. Louis trains?? The Delrin tube has no stand off nylon pads and has a narrower vacuum slit. All of this greatly increases the vacuum. With it all liquid is removed in one revolution, which is really helpful when you are using a four step cleaning as I do. I had a Loricraft which replaced my VPI and was much superior, but it took forever to vacuum off the record.
I have repeatedly recleaned records that had been cleaned with the Loricraft and always found cleaner, tick and pop free sound, plus better bass and treble. I even tried the more expensive Loricraft to see if it would be faster, but it was not really any faster.
Crem1, my experiences with steam cleaning were many years ago. I am sure that had I better equipment I might have had better results. As it was the process was too time consuming and the results not satisfying. Were there an easy to use steam cleaning product, I would try it again, but I cannot imagine better than I am presently getting.
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
02-05-09
Tbg, thanks. Crem1
02-08-09: Vanmeter
After still wrestling with white gunk on my stylus with just random records, last night out of frustration I tried Spray 'n Wash as has been recommended again and again on AA. I put that on one of my problem LPs, rinsed, then steamed, then scrubbed with my usual stuff, rinsed again, and dried. No blob on the stylus. So far, anyway.
Vanmeter (Answers)
02-08-09
Tbg yes i love the cardinals and choo choos almost as much a ... Stltrains
02-08-09
Stltrains, i grew up in kirkwood long ago. at that time the ... Tbg
02-08-09
Thank you tbg will put this on my watch list. have a good on ... Stltrains
02-08-09: Crem1
Vanmeter: Your post detailing "Spray&Wash"(S&W) offers a reasonable solution to an difficult cleaning problem. Vinyl is vinyl . Steam cleaning a super-grunged LP with the use of S&W , should cause no problems. Besides when its "Spray & Wash" a LP or the trash can , I'll use S&W. Thanks.
Readers : I purchased a McMulloch , Model MC 1235 Handheld Steam Cleaner @ The Home Depot Internet site ($50 to my door). I learned of the MC 1235 from a posting on another thread. The MC 1235 has too many innovations to summarize. Its a significant upgrade to my arsenal of steamers for LP cleaning. I recommend anyone interested Google "mc 1235" for a detailed explanation ... A true 21th Century Product in design, operation & technology. Best to all.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-09-09
Vanmeter , i signed onto aa searching for "spray & wash ... Crem1
02-09-09
I've just been using the spray bottle such as shown at the l ... Vanmeter
02-10-09: Tbg
Why are there no commercial steam record cleaning machines?
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
02-10-09: Vanmeter
I have to mention, and it may have been said before and I've missed it, that the most amazing difference I've heard wtih steam is on old mono 45s. Steam isn't a miracle worker, but I'm hearing better signal to noise, less distortion, just all around cleaner sound much of the time.
Vanmeter (Answers)
02-10-09: Crem1
Tbg,I'll take a jab at responding to the question. This is a viewpoint found on years of slogging.
An over-view of the subject:
1: Many commerical steam machines exist , none suited to record cleaning. Most are suited to heavy industry to degrease machines. As a group they come in all sizes an shapes producing super-heated steam & water (some at hundreds ++ degrees) that melt grease(an vinyl) on contact. Next are garment steamers. Most can distort vinyl in seconds. The reason? Garment machines ,by design, steam & heat a relatively large area to remove wrinkels from cloth. Apply them to vinyl ,kaboom, now you have a droopy, wavey LP. Steam irons do the same only more so. Way too hot and dangerious!
The exception are the household , handlheld steam cleaners. As a group, the comsumer machines produce steam with heated water at near exactly the right temperature(212*- 220*F)cooling to 150* to 187*F. Perfect for record cleaning and household useage. Some more perfect than others but all can perform. Nearly all are constant water-boilers maintained under pressure til' the water runs out(8-15 minutes). They must cooled down before refilling.
Consumer handheld steam cleaners are already under licence (to some one or some company) . With no financal incentive, the Record Cleaning Industry (RCI) shuns most anything they can not contol. Generally, the steamers are not under public domaine but several components maybe that make them difficult to patient. A lot of trouble , money and no return.
2. Steam cleaning LPs is viewed as a threat to the record cleaning machine (RCM) market, manufactures having invested in expensive advertising & machining for decades. In truth, RCM make little money in return for the investment. Its a fact RCM's cost hundreds to thousands retail more than steam units that sell for $50.00 or less. A significant retail spread.
We are what I term "insidental users". We adapt an existing product to our needs that were never recognized by the inital manufacture. In short, we get all the "R&D" benefits with no additional mark-up. They manufacture for the world, in thousands of units, we as a group are few in numbers compaired to the global market,but, we pay the going rate. That's true most of the time;exceptions do exist.
Since I already own a RCM , I incorperate its use , what I term "Combo-Ing" to cleaning records with excellent results. Should you have a RCM use it.If not, no problem.
3. Liability. Of the designers/manufactures whom I have freely spoken with , none were keen to sell high pressure handheld, water boiling units out of concern (fear) for abuse & lawsuits. Still, others refuse to accept any notion that "lite" steam can clean LPs, only their product or cleaning fluid.It has been related, some take every chance to speak negatively , to Audio Insiders , here & in Europe, to slow the notion of steam cleaning.A few even claim steaming causes inaudable, periment damage to LPs, a claim wispered with no published evidence.
I can't blame them , if I were they I might adopt the same tactic. Nevertheless, the paradigm is changing(slowly)and in time the RCI will adopt steaming but as for when ? Besides , when insidental users (like us) can buy a MC 1235 for $50,light-years ahead of convential pressurized units,why should the RCI even bother ? Once I got confortable with the 1235's operation ,I doubt I will ever use a pressured , water-boiling handheld unit again.
Of course ,one can spend $150 on the Mapleshade Kit . Mapleshade puts their ID on the steam unit,actually a "Steamfast Runner",a constant water-boiler, Model SF-227, as their own . That's ok ,they have a right to do that,no problem. Or,one can easily duplicate the kit,sans the rinsers,for about a 2/3 thirds less than the retail price, a tad more with a 1235. Insidentally, the Steamfast units and the McCulloch units are manufactured for Top Innovations (TI), Inc. in China. TI owns the distribution rights to both lines. That is a fact.
I do not expect to see "Record Steaming Machines" anytime soon. But with the MC 1235 ,frankly, who needs ID's .
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-10-09: Tbg
Crem1, very interest even if a bit paranoid. I know most of the RCM manufacturers, they feel no sense of being in control.
Can you please elaborate on how you use a handheld steamer to clean a record? Do you just blow off foreign material onto the floor or in the sink?
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
02-10-09: Crem1
Tbg, you can communicate with me off-line at your convience ,should you wish to discuss this further.
As for the "how to" that has been outlined many times in past years that's viewable in posts already archived. I would never be so cavilier to do "blow-off" material onto the floor. I respect my audio roon & lifestyle to do that. Thats a repugnate idea. Perhaps a read of old copies of "Listener" & Stereophile would help. I'm mentioned by name & the method was reviewed by Michael Fremer in '03 & '06. I'm was included in "Positive Feedback" a few years back.
Steam Cleaning Lps is something I have been perfecting for over a decade. I began to share the idea in print in '2000. Posters report that steaming is more effective than using a RCM but without the cost. Read a bit than try it out.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-10-09
Crem1, sorry i seem to have ignored your efforts. i will cat ... Tbg
02-11-09: Crem1
No problem here. Give a read or email me. "Control" was a short-cut term . My view is that the Industry ignores the prospect of steam cleaning because there is no reason to support an idea that competes @ pennies on the dollar. Endorsing steam cleaning rather than your brand of record cleaning is not a great way to get your product sold.
I will disclose that several years ago I agreed to a private, invite only, informal "shootout" with one company that manufactures RCMs ,world wide. The owner was present. The pervailing view was that inexpensive steamer used out performed these very expensive products & machines. This was a private matter and I will not reveal the marque. That's all I shall disclose .
I don't write in a vaccum. I receive emails from all over the world requesting advice I give freely. The emails & posts help me as much as I contribute to them. That's how I learned of the MC 1235 ,a remarkable machine one completely adapted to steam cleaning LPs.
In closing, an example of the dramatic difference between steaming and vaccum machines . I own a 1950's Maria Callis LP in mint+ condition that I cleaned with a RCM. Initially, I could hear a slight "stage noise" before Callas began to sing . Upon steam cleaning & in the manner I suggest, one hears : Callas slowly walk onto her mark , the russel of her dress, the soft-sound of leather(most likely shoes) , the movement of her diaphram near the open mike as she opens her mouth, breathes in & instantly I am transported to the exact moment she sings. Quite profound , never forgotten.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-18-09: Vanmeter
Any more thoguhts on the Pledge wipes mentioned above? I have tried them...and they seem to work well, but I too wonder if anything is left behind. In the evening, if I shine a flashlight at about a 45 degree angle on a record that has been RCMd after steaming, there's little visible dust or lint. With just the microfiber cloth and no RCM, there's a ton of dust and lint. One pass under the pledge removes everything visible - literally one turn of the record.
Vanmeter (Answers)
02-18-09: Crem1
Vanmeter : I haven't yet purchased Spray & Wash or the Pledge Wipes, I will buy both soon. It is my guess w/o actual experience these cleaners should be used extreme cases. That is an opinion reasoned by use of other detergent-types cleaners but not the ones you suggest. I would try them & then reclean each LP with the prospect of removing all traces of household powerhouse-type detergents w/record cleaning fluid, several steams & the use a RCM to suck off whatevers left. I am concerned that the detergent residues could loosen the diamond tip by disolving the cement .Its known that some detergents can do that , I do not know exactly which ones. Should all residue be steamed off,I reason, no harm to the diamond's glue. That's my view , subject to revision.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-21-09: Sabocat59
Good forum and good info.I use the walgeens steamer and it works well. But my cleaning process is a hybrid. I use the steamer in cojunction with the GEM dandy eaner and high pressure water hose. I steam, spray on the cleaner, apply the hose and finish with a steam. Then I wipe with microfiber and let dry. Works great for me. The hydraulic pressure removes any remaing crud left in the grooves and the final steam removes water residue
Sabocat59 (Threads | Answers)
02-21-09: Tbg
Sabocat, this sounds pretty wet and messy. I am going to retry steam cleaning soon using the VPI 16.5 with the Walker vacuum tube.
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
02-24-09
Crem (and others) one question - how long do you let the rec ... Vanmeter
02-24-09: Bogglor
Crem - do you use an attachment with the MC1235? I just got one and want to make sure I'm getting the most out of it... and what strength are you using the steam pressure setting (the one on the handle?) Mine is maxxed out. I find that the first splurt of steam is very drippy so I usually spray that into a towel and then proceed with the trigger held down.
I recently steamed an LP that I had previously cleaned via my homebrew alcohol solution and it actually sounded worse.
It had more pops and crackles post-steaming than it had before, which was totally strange. I think it could be the new Mofi brush I was using, that thing was leaving a lot of threads/strands/residue on the microfiber cloth while I was drying -- could be that some of that thread junk got into the grooves... probably not the steamer's fault.
Right now I don't have an RCM or lazy susan to spin the LP on so I'm just laying it flat on a microfiber cloth and steaming around the LP for about 10 seconds with the bent nozzle held about 3 inches above the LP surface, moving at a steady pace. Any better way to do it with the MC1235? I've read through ALL of the old threads, so I guess I'm seeing if there's an update to your technique over time with this new steamer.
Bogglor (Answers)
02-24-09: Crem1
Bogglor,
I use the MC 1235 exactly as pictured on the box w/the straight nozzel. I have no dripping ... yet. If I were you, I would contact Top Innovations to request a replacement for your apparent defective unit.
How I steam is as follows:
I pre-steam a side to loosen up any grunge(my term for record dirt) , I lightly scrub with very, very fine soft brush or a VPI record cleaning brush. I do use record cleaning fluids from Home Brew to Disc Doctor & others with a gentle scrubing. I then use a VPI 16.5 to suck off the whatevers on the record, I then re-steam to remove any residue re-use the VPI 16.5 or in the alternative, air drying using a very, very soft cotton micro-type cloth to wipe while resting the LP from a 1/2 hour to a day.
I rarely ever re-steam a LP provided ,I replace the inner sleve & place the Lp in a poly bag.
Whenever I use the MC 1235 ,I squeese the trigger once knowing a burst of steam with follow several seconds later. I then re-squeese the trigger & release it release again perhaps releaseing a 2nd or a third burst of steam. Note, that's what differs the MC 1235 from the traditional water boilers in which the trigger releases a head of premade steam within the water boilers at a force preset by the manufacturer. With the MC 1235, I perfer to use the low setting on mint LPs & the higher setting everything elese. I perfer the additional control factor.
In terms of home brew, I use the formulas posted on the Net using 92 to 100 percent ISO & battery water.
You do not have a lazy susan : May I suggest using a 100 percent cotton wash cloth than micro-cloths , so many act as static magnets... That could be a part of the problem.
A lot of steamers feel strongly they do not require a RCM & swear that steaming alone is superior to any RCM.
Respectfully, its a difficult call because one can be assured all debris(AKA Gunk) in the grove has been removed w/o a vaccum machine. Still, other steamers use deep water rinsing with either very clean water or Nerl water with hand drying stating " That's the way to go". As for me , I'm a mixer I combo steaming with a RCM. That's my style but others say they have great results with steam and just steam, something you have not.
Bogglor , Demand a replacement or your money refunded.
Steamers, do you have any further suggestions ?
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-24-09: Crem1
Vanmeter, I have found that many LPs can be played shortly after cleaning. For reasons yet un-explained some LPs sound better with a rest. I have no scientific explanation but thats how it is ... Sometimes.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-24-09: Halcro
After trying Crem's steam cleaning methods, I was one who decided Cleaning Solutions were no longer necessary.......just a pure water rinse and vacuum after the steam. However I still use a RCM for all the conveniences of rotation and counter-rotation but most importantly, for the vacuuming. I would never consider just simply 'wiping' the record and air drying after the water rinse. At this microscopic level, there will be molecules of dirt and/or contamination lying at the bottom of the water trapped in the grooves. To let it dry there is I feel, counter-productive.
Halcro (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
02-25-09
That makes all the sense in the world to me, except other th ... Vanmeter
02-25-09: Bogglor
Hmm, there may be some error in my technique then, as I'm just holding the trigger down the entire time while steaming as opposed to a press / wait / press again cycle. I will remove the attachment and try it with your methodology and see if that improves any. It's important to note that it doesn't drip ALL the time, just on that first blast of steam it's a little more water vapor oriented than steam oriented, but it changes over to all steam quickly. If it persists or I find it defective after trying it your way, I will return the item to TI.
Thanks for your reply and all of your innovations regarding steaming. I am hoping that I can get it down to the science that you have!
Bogglor (Answers)
02-25-09: Stltrains
Bogglor piece of cake. very easy to do. BTW i hold the trigger down the entire time i'm steaming with the attachment on the steamer its a Perfection steamer. Its normal for the blast of water along with dripping on most occasions. And thats hundreds of lps i've steam cleaned.
I've never had a problem always get super quite, sounding vinyl. The only problem is when a lp is so bad to begin with that the process does not get the results needed to enjoy the record. And all thats lost is your time and a few cents for materials. You will get the hang of it, then it will be second nature to you. IMO nothing beats the sound of a steamed cleaned lp period.
Stltrains (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
02-25-09: Crem1
Bogglor: Stltrains is describing the technique adapted for a "Perfection Handheld Steam Cleaner" available @ Walgreens but apparently according to posts the name has been changed to "Lifestyles" rather than "Perfection". It an excellent product alined with traditional water boiling units; the MC 1235 does not create steam in the same way. Therefore, it is possible that the spitting that you experienced was the result of holding down the water trigger. The MC 1235 manual cautions that holding down the injector trigger for more than 10 seconds creates spitting. The perfection works differently. The head of steam from the Perfection is released with the hand trigger at a constant rate until it is gone.
The MC 1235 creates steam on demand in 2-3 second bursts with each squeese of the hand trigger that injects a small shot of water into a micro-steamer that inturn creates steam moments following a squeese of the trigger.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-25-09: Stltrains
Crem glad i was able to get a backup Perfection unit. From what you describe above i would think the continuous spray would be on the easy side. Of course not using the newer 1235 i would not know would i.
And on it goes the evolution of steam cleaning vinyl and i could not be any happier with your discovery of steaming vinyl thanks again Crem.
Stltrains (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
02-26-09
Remember that a thorough rcm vacuuming can leave the record ... Piedpiper
02-26-09: Crem1
Stltrains: Thanks for your support. Kind comments like yours really give me a boost.
On reflection, I was frankly surprized to discover the difficulity some of us were having with the MC 1235. I believe a Steam user with years of experience the transition appears more transparent from water boilers to instant steam makers. On reflection I think a blanket recommendation of the MC 1235 is over-reaching. The Perfection Steamer is a reliable unit very well suited to the over-all needs of a novice to a more seasoned record steam cleaner. Yes, the MC 1235 has innovations but certantly seems more demanding, more "complicated" than the Perfection. Both provide excellent results. The MC 1235 will provide excellent service but the learning curve is longer to the Perfection (now The Lifestyle Steamer).
As I previously posted ; a canster steamer I was operating at home "exploded" in my kitchen. No one was hurt and all the failsafe measures worked perfectly. The $100 canster steamer was expensive to repair ,$230 for the all brass boiler plus installation. That insident started me on a quest for newer technology : A fellow poster alerted me to the MC 1235.
What works for me may not always work as well for someone elese. But, the basics remain the same , a reliable water source & technique supported with a record cleaning fluid an RCM are proven sucess. The application of an anti-static device does improve upon the end-result. I have yet to use the Walker devise;however, I do use a home brew machine that drys & removes static in moments. I have a zapper and a studio tape demagger that removes all static in a second,quite effective .
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
02-26-09
Furtech de stat is a real winner for static elimination. jus ... Stltrains
02-26-09
Stltrains, i think you would find the walker talisman better ... Tbg
02-26-09: Stltrains
Tbg i use both and with fine results. I find the De Stat is very useful right after my steam cleaning process. I seem to develop a lot of static and the De Stat removes all of it with no problem.
I use Talisman before each playback of a lp. And do believe it improves the sound of vinyl. Lord knows what will come up next to rise our fancy.
Enjoy the music while you can.
Stltrains (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
02-27-09: Dgarretson
I think I finally ruined a record using my steamer with a VPI 16.5. I was experimenting by moving the nozzle of the steamer quite close to the LP. There is now a low-level thump on one radius line all across the LP from lead-in to run-out. I suspect that the damage occurred when the 16.5 clamped down the vacuum wand on soft hot vinyl. Be careful not to get too close with steam!
Dgarretson (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
03-01-09: Crem1
Dgarretson: What a misfortune. In years of steaming, nothing like that has happened to me (yet). One rule: I never steam closer than 3/4"ish and constantly move the steam unit all over the LP side for moments at a time. May your fortune change. The whole purpose of steaming is to improve the plight of average-up LP owners. In the future please be awaire of the distance & concentration of steam. Most nozzels are brass , a touch there goes the LP. Better luck in the days ahead.
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)
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