AudiogoN
Search Buy Sell Learn MyPage
 Learn > Forums > Analog > 1216241371  Start New Thread | Log In | Bookmark This
  lps sound bad
I am finally listening to lps after going perhaps 20 years without, due to a recent (about 3 months) investment into a vinyl rig. I'm absolutely bummed that perhaps 30 to 40% of my collection really isn't worth playing due to sonic considerations.

I have an aproximate 2,000 lp collection, nearly all are new album, record show, or garage sale purchases dating from the early 70's thru the mid 80's. These are mostly all very well preserved, with minimal wear, dust pops, scratches etc. My problem is not with the shape or cleanliness of the records (they have been hand cleaned in accordance with 'expert' advice, then cleaned again in a VPI 16.5). Nor are they mistracked, none of that inner groove distortion.

It is also not a setup issue, cartridge setup is absolutely correct, and every other parameter of setup, from the wall shelves/isolation to power cords and ICs has had careful attention.

My issue is in the mastering and/or pressing of the lps. This 30 to 40% have issues, mostly with small soundstaging and/or lack of frequency extension, especially in the bass. They simply sound small scale and lightweight, like mid-fi to me. The other 60 to 70% of my collection sound relatively huge in comparison, large, airy soundstaging, transparent, dynamic, especially the micro dynamics.

Now, the vast majority of the 30 to 40% that sound small scale are what I believe to be, original pressings of 70's rock music. The rest, mostly 50's and 60's recordings from a huge variety of genres, sound wonderful, mostly way better than my digital.

I suspect what I'm hearing is excessive compression due to poor mastering and/or pressing. At this point I'm not sure whether the main culprit is mastering or pressings. As I previously mentioned, most of these recordings were purchased in the early 70's to mid 80's, thus, I believe they are original pressings, which leaves mastering as the culprit. On the other hand, I have digital remasters of a number of these rock recording, a small number sound larger scale than their lp counterparts, which leads me to suspect pressings in some cases.

From this, I extrapolate that mastering is the culprit in most cases. Furthermore, I believe the bad sounding lps sound bad because of solid state recording studio equipment. My 50's and 60's recordings nearly all sound big, large scale, some may not have the greatest frequency extension, especially in the highs, but they all are tonally and dimensionally full, some luciously so, in the midrange. These recordings come from the heyday of tube equipment, both in the recording studio and home audio.

I should add, I'm not trying to make a case of solid state recording studios being the sole culprit here, as a small percentage of my 70's rock recordings sound large scale and satisfying. Rather I think it is solid state done on the cheap, and with bad ears on the part of the producers and engineers that is at fault. The late 60's and early 70's had more than it's fair share of crappy solid state, and most producers and engineers didn't know the first thing about quality sound (as remains the case).

Still, it seems the 50's and 60's producers and engineers could do less harm to the sound, the tube recording equipment always had the relatively voluptuous midrange. And perhaps the tube home audio of the day let them hear at least a semblance of quality, so they tried to replicate that sound in the studio.

As things stand, I'm somewhat disappointed in vinyl at this point. I was hoping these 70's rock recordings would sound much better than their cd counterparts (remastered or not). 30 to 40% of my collection is basically throw away at this point, I don't care to go through all the hassles inherent in the playing of records that sound only as good or worse than their digital counterparts.

I'm now getting the itch to buy lps new, I'm just wondering if the newly minted rock lps of classic rock are worth buying. It seems the digital remasters I have are only marginally better, in most cases, over older digital pressings. I suspect the same will hold true for vinyl, the new remasters will only sound marginally better than my original pressings.

At this point, I'm basically writing off classic rock recordings on lp. While I know classic rock can sound good on lp, the small number of exceptions I've experienced leave me highly skeptical. Future purchases will be mostly limited to recordings (of all genres) prior to the 70's. Future classic rock purchases will be mostly in digital form, for any lp purchases I will have to rely on thumbs up by reviewers I trust. Contemporary recordings are problematic as well, sound quality is all over the place in the digital recording studios, it seems to be a crapshoot, have to rely on reviewers here as well.

Vinyl setup:
VPI Scoutmaster
JMW 10.5i tonearm
SDS
Dynavector 20XL
Cayin Phono-One
Sns  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

07-16-08
  Responses (1-50 of 84)
Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

07-16-08   Wow...this really sounds like the antithesis of what i hear. ...   Stringreen

07-16-08   There is a great deal of variation in recording quality brou ...   Bongofury

07-16-08   Records are like any other media. some pressings are excelle ...   Grimace

07-16-08   sns, i too, returned to vinyl to see what all the fuss i ...   Islandmandan

07-16-08   Screw it. sell your collection to me for 10 cents on the dol ...   Dan_ed

07-16-08   I rejuvenated my vinyl rig 9 months ago and have had some of ...   Eweedhome

07-16-08   Are any of you saying that you do not have these very same i ...   Viridian

07-16-08   Stingreen, you mention dark side of the moon. yes, pink floy ...   Sns

07-16-08   Exactly. i wish only 30 percent of my cds sounded bad.   Onetwothreego

07-16-08   Viridian, i have the same issues with digital. its just that ...   Sns

07-17-08   Sns: sorry gotta take some issue: yes? i'm a yes fan since t ...   Xiekitchen

07-17-08   Like many have said, tom port at http://www.dccblowout.com i ...   G_m_c

07-17-08   Part two: on the subject of crappy records: weather report. ...   Xiekitchen

07-16-08   If you think for example the beatles sound bad on vinyl than ...   Radioheadokplayer

07-17-08   Xiekitchen, i never said anything about yes albums, not even ...   Sns

07-17-08   Sns - you're right about the white album - fun stuff, but it ...   Xiekitchen

07-17-08   Sns, thanks for your candid answer. i have missed the hoopla ...   Viridian

07-17-08   Sometimes...it's simply the performance and the music.   Mt10425

07-17-08   Wow! i have the same tt and cartridge with the sig 9 arm. my ...   Artemus_5

07-17-08   I think this may be a vta issue. lack of bass suggests your ...   Viiu

07-17-08   Artemus, i am not saying cds sound better than vinyl, i agre ...   Sns

07-17-08   Viiu and others, to reiterate, while i am new to vinyl, i a ...   Sns

07-17-08   Sns...this may come as a shock, but the sound quality of all ...   Jaybo

07-17-08   sorry, meant tom at better records, not don.   Sns

07-17-08   Ps..the loch ness monster, big foot, the jersey devil, hot s ...   Jaybo

07-17-08   There are some real dogs in both cd and vinyl, there is no g ...   Undertow

07-17-08   Sns, i am sorry you are having the problems. its been long s ...   Artemus_5

07-17-08   No, i'm not saying i'm unhappy with vinyl per se, i am only ...   Sns

07-17-08   If i look at a record and there is more than your normal amo ...   Acee

07-17-08   Not that you seem to interested in anyone's suggestions but ...   Ejlif

07-17-08   i started listening to lps in the early '60s, and by the ear ...   Johnnyb53

07-17-08   Ejlif, what gives you the idea i'm not listening to other's ...   Sns

07-17-08   If rock was the only music that i listened to, i would not o ...   Stiltskin

07-17-08   Sns, i listen to 90% vinyl and 10% digital. and yes, i agre ...   Oregon

07-17-08   Thank you, stiltskin. yes, i could add my pink floyd's meddl ...   Sns

07-17-08   Well, i was there in the late 1950s, all of the 1960s, 1970s ...   Dcstep

07-17-08   Oregon, yeah, i have some older animals albums i have yet to ...   Sns

07-17-08   Sns, misspelled the title of one of my all time favorite roc ...   Stiltskin

07-17-08   Pink floyd has always had complete artistic control since at ...   Jaybo

07-17-08: Artemus_5
Sns, you say "I mentioned in previous posts the offending lps. Just off the top of my head, I can add Eagles-Hotel California,..."

I have never heard anyone say that album sounded bad. I know you don't want to hear it but this is so fishy it makes me believe that there is definitely something wrong in your system.
The Benz Cart I spoke of earlier which was defective was new. it took a test record to uncover that there were problems with it. But the only thing the test record showed was that it did not pan. It tracked fine and when it played good it was marvelous. But on some records that I knew were good, it played terrible while on some that had previously been bright and tizzy, it subdued and played nicely. FWIW it drove me nuts and took 2 months to finally come to the conclusion that the cart was defective. The only way I found it was to try it in another system which was quite tricky since there aren't too many audiophiles in this neck of the woods. And BTW I'd say that 30-40% of my records were unlistenable with this defective cartridge.
Bottom line is that 40 % of unplayable records is unacceptable and goes against everything I know about vinyl playback. If you had a cheap TT et al, then maybe so. But not with your setup. There's something wrong in the vinyl chain. I'm trying to be helpful and not put down your system nor your knowledge. I will say it no more.

Artemus_5  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


07-17-08   Stiltskin, meddle is incredible, it would be awesome to hear ...   Sns

07-17-08   I'll pile on and say that my original "hotel california ...   Dcstep

07-17-08   i guess my expectations were not as high as some of yours ...   Sonofjim

07-17-08   that's why, when i'm perusing the bargain bins, i snatch up ...   Johnnyb53

07-18-08   When i first learned of better play back equipment, thanks t ...   Stiltskin

07-18-08   A little history...in 1982, only about 20% of all prerecorde ...   Jaybo

07-18-08   jaybo, thanks, this is exactly what i was trying to say. ...   Sonofjim

07-18-08   Sonofjim...you just said it better than me. heres a story, a ...   Jaybo

07-18-08   You guys make perfect sense on listening perspectives. proba ...   Sns

07-18-08   I have an original copy of hotel california that sounds subl ...   Azmoon


    1 | 2 Next >

  Post your response
Subject


Your response

No html, but you may use markup tags


Username
Members only

Password