AudiogoN Forums: Analog experiment

Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur

Aball (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

10-24-06

Responses (1-47 of 47)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

10-24-06 Aball, thanks for posting the results of your experiment. yo ... Rushton

10-24-06 I am new to analog. last night was my first night with my ne ... Glory

10-24-06 Your method of comparison/evaluation strikes me as very good ... Eldartford

10-24-06 I have found that when evaluating any change, it is best to ... Zargon

10-24-06 I am not too surprised with your findings. unless you are ce ... Jyprez

10-24-06 I was probably more surprised than any of you. i have heard ... Aball

10-24-06 Aball, you say that you found good things about both formats ... Dan_ed

10-24-06 I don't think any of my lps today were standard pressings - ... Aball

10-25-06 Thanks for the interesting update to your original old ar tu ... Rockvirgo

10-25-06 You know i found that when lp's were sounding like cd's and ... Stefanl

10-25-06 Aball sez: i understand that. that's exactly the problem man ... Gregm

10-25-06 I don't think 40 second intervals are even close to long eno ... Rnm4

10-25-06 The best reason to go back to vinyl is if you have access to ... Elizabeth

10-24-06 Arthur, you are right in realizing that you must find the ri ... Jyprez

10-24-06 Different strokes. nobody should be upset at your decision, ... Pauly

10-25-06 Without knowing the specifics of which lp's you used - keep ... Opalchip

10-25-06 P.s. though i was somewhat critical of your software choice ... Opalchip

10-25-06 Over the past several months i've been digitizing lots of 60 ... Hals_den

10-25-06 Thanks for all your thoughts. rnm4 - as i said already, i ... Aball

10-25-06 My experience has been that switching rapidly between one co ... Drubin

10-25-06 Good experiment arthur. this is what i envision as part of ... David_berry

10-25-06 The blue point #2 (i have one idle) doesn't really make it h ... Jaybo

10-25-06 I agree with zargon. i have done the same a/b thing evaluati ... Hoopster

10-25-06 Arthur, your experience matches mine although my experiment ... Shadorne

10-25-06 Arthur, if the project and your sony are close on 40 second ... Flyingred

10-25-06 I think one experiment you haven't done and hasn't been ment ... Musicslug

10-25-06 Do not try to analyze what is happening - just listen and en ... Moemoney

10-25-06 Anyone prefer gold and bartering with real commodities to th ... Shadorne

10-25-06 Arthur, i like your testing methadology. i have heard that ... Artizen65

10-26-06 Aball, i'm going to have to disagree with what you said. i ... Plinko

10-25-06 Used lp's = $1 at my local record exchange. used cd's = lots ... Cervelorider

10-26-06 I agree with dan. why not add another format to your system. ... Ozzy62

10-26-06 I've re-read the same advice from folks on this thread and o ... Pawlowski6132

10-26-06 My first thread asked if cheap used lps are decent quality/c ... Aball

10-26-06 Pawlowski6132, the whole digital thing is a conspiracy to ... Shadorne

10-26-06 Pawlowski6132, the reason i suggest someone with no lps stic ... Flyingred

10-26-06 Arthur, for fun, take your sony to your dealor and repeat th ... Jj2468

10-27-06 Jeff - that is a good idea and i will do that for sure. my ... Aball

10-27-06 Aball says "however, i do know that many used lps i ha ... Dan_ed

10-26-06 Pawlowski6132, i would agree there are lots of cheap lp's ou ... Jyprez

10-27-06: Aball
Ok - I got some other vinyl and have been listening to the turntable for 3 days now, off and on, seriously, casually and as background music. This should take care of those who got hung up on the one part of my test were 40 second bites were used. I have been working at home a good bit lately so I listened a whole lot. So here are my thoughts at this point:

It doesn't have as much definition as my CD players and the rhythm and pace kind of suffers as a result. The toe tapping is induced but not as much as my CD players where their better control of leading edges gives the music a pulse of life the turntable can't quite match. Its ability to keep complex music clear and layered is another shortcoming, probably due to the same problem. The differences are slight, of course, but they are there.

However, the bass is excellent - good weight and strength and probably betters my digital sources in many cases. But I am not a bass freak and pace for me plays a bigger role in my decision to keep something or not. The coherence, soundstaging, high frequency extension and midrange smoothness were all basically like I am used to hearing - which means, very good.

When I take it back to my dealer, I will bring my Sony or Prima along too so we can hear them there together. Though some of you will dismiss this test because it doesn't go on for days, I am curious to see if anything will change in another system. But my system is what counts so it probably won't change my mind regardless.

I really enjoyed my time with the Pro-Ject. The problem with definition is an issue though because it hurts the musicality and "liveness" which are core requirements for my tastes. Maybe a different turntable or cartridge would improve it but I already have better for less money so I don't have a drive to try another analog setup. I am satisfied with the conclusion that my CD players are all I need. I am going to buy a few hundred CDs instead of the turntable, disc cleaner, and new LP collection. Thanks for all your comments.

Arthur
Aball (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

10-27-06 Arthur, for fun i'll be curious to see what happens when you ... Jj2468

10-27-06 Congratulations, arthur: go for the music, always! also: th ... Rushton

10-28-06 Arthur, kudos to you for going through the process, and even ... T_bone

10-28-06 I also commend authur on valuable, honest throughs from what ... Outlier

10-29-06 Outlier...in my 10/24 posting i referenced my audition (at a ... Eldartford

10-29-06 Well said. el. i still contend that aball's testing methodo ... Drubin