You could try some Rothwell fixed attenuators or Endler adjustable attenuators.
You could try them between your source and pre or pre and amps. |
Why not try the kind of amps the Trio allows you to use?
You do not need all that power. 2-25w is plenty. All that push pull and extra amplification stages only eat into the organic ness and beauty that small simple amps will give you. With the kind of sensitivity you have the amplification possibilities are endless. 45 tubes, 2a3, AD1,300b and so on.
That aside, ask BAT if there is a change in resistor value that could bring your volume control into a more useable range. |
You can also easily go to one BAT VK60...have to take off the bottom cover, change a few jumpers and a wiring harness...call bat or your dealer here... |
Chadeffect,
That was very sound advice.With a speaker of this caliber and sensitivity those simpler circuit amplifiers could provide some very natural sound and excellent tone.Something to think about.Mckorzi, if you read chad`s system page you`ll see he`s used a multitude of amplifier topologies. He speaks from well grounded experience.
Regards, |
I would seriously consider other amps. I had duos with BAT 150s and it was to much I had much better sound with lower powered tube amps or even the pass aleph 3 for that matter. Trios being such a sensitive speaker were made to be used with the very low power tube amps that create such a beautiful sound but are not practical for most speakers. |
Your BAT components are very good. I wouldn't be so fast to get rid of them. There are some things you may want to try first. Even though your amps are more powerful than what you really need, theyre very quiet and should work with your speakers.
If it was my system, the first thing I would try would be to switch both amps back to stereo. Not only would it cut the power output in half, you would then be able to do a vertical biamp. More likely than not, you would notice an improvement in sound quality as well. When you bridge a stereo amp it usually doesnt sound as good.
Another way to go would be to call BAT and explain the situation. I would ask them 3 things. 1. See if you can use alternate tubes. 2. Ask if there is a way to lower the gain on your preamp. 3. Remove 1 power tube from each channel and go single ended. Under no circumstances would I do this without asking BAT first. I can do it with my VAC 30/30 but it may not be OK to do this with BAT. |
Zd542,
You make some very good points if keeping the BATs, but the very quality these speakers show so clearly can only be found in flea power. Otherwise you may as well go back to low sensitivity speakers.
We are in pretty specialist waters here. Obviously you can use anything to drive Trios. I even had 1,000w monos on them!
The list of power tubes I mention in an above post (and other tubes of course) but especially those I mention will take the OP to places I'm sure he didn't know existed.
These low powered tubes present Timbre, organicness, soul, layering, dynamics, sweetness, beauty, image size etc in ways I have never heard in any other forms of amplification. Each tube bringing more or less of the above traits. So the ability to tune the sound to your own taste is almost infinite.
Those powerful tubes used in the BAT are for another problem these speakers do not have. You will miss some rare sonic virtues that are available. |
I rarely recommend what I personally use, but the Lamm SET amps are very synergistic with the Avantgardes and will allow you to hear why both products are highly regarded.
You should probably get some help from some one who knows the speaker in setting them up properly. I've had the Duo for six years, and there are significant differences with small changes in set-up, wiring, and adjustment of crossover to woofers. They can deliver life-like sound, sound lackluster or make you run away screaming, depending on small changes in set-up. |
What Whart said - the Lamm SETs are a match made in heaven with Avantgardes. OP also might consider a preamp (like Cary SLP-05) with L&R gain controls, plus a master volume control.
The speakers are worth the effort! |
It's not the amount of power, it's the gain structure of your system when listening to your digital source. Contact BAT about lowering the preamp's gain. Alternatively, SMC makes a device that reduces system gain by 12dB that works in either balanced or single ended systems. You could insert it before your preamp. |
Onhwy61,
I agree that system gain reduction is certainly a viable choice(especially if he wants to keep the BAT components).
If he`s interested in exploring a 'different'type' of sound and musical perspective with lower power SET amps,he has the ideal speaker to take advantage of their special qualities.These speakers provide significant flexibility.
Regards, |
Ohhwy61,
Come on man, those were my words! I wanted to say it first- not fair.
Of course, the power of your amps has nothing to do with the loudness, it is a gain structure of both- preamp and power amp.
I have Avantgarde speakers, and know exactly, what you mean.
I was also told, that it's better to have lower gain in the preamp, than in the power amp.
Attenuators are an option, but will come with some, maybe negligible, degradation of signal.
But, a reduction of your system gain will afford you immense benefits- much lower level of background noise, more precise volume control, etc.
Please, do yourself a favor and contact Victor Khomenko of BAT, maybe they will be able to reduce gain in your preamp- you will benefit also from having less connections in the system (b/w attenuator and amp/preamp)
As a matter of fact, Victor has Avantgarde Trio and (surprise, surprise) BAT electronics in his personal system, so he should know how to help you
Cheers |
Agreed re gain, not power of amp, but the Lamm SET/AvG combo is
special in my experience. (And yes, I have used other amps with the AvG
as well). A pair of used ML 2.1 are probably in the neighborhood of 13k
dollars US from an authorized dealer, and well worth comparing if the OP is
going to the trouble of getting the most out of the speaker/amp combo.
Like I said, I rarely recommend components I use. Interesting to note that
several other AvG owners who have posted here (Triode, Maril) have the
Lamm
and the other poster-Chadeffect- who also owns the Trio, recommended
similar types
of low powered tube amps. |
Yes,you can have excess gain with low power amps in the system also,no arguement.It would be fun (if possible) to try different low power DHT SET as they all have their own attributes.Chadeffect`s amplifier odyssey is quite interesting and informative.I can imagine the pure beauty of his 2 watt Yamamoto driving these speakers.It`d also be interesting to hear the very different Lamm for another sonic approach.
Regards, |
Just to add to the good advice above, bare in mind you are in a realm where finally you don't need mega $ over the top amps. The circuits should be so simple that the part count is in the 10s!
I praise The Lord when a flea power amp the price of an interconnect of virtue comes through the door and puts in the type of performance you once dreamed of.
I advise you (especially if you are a true audiophool) to enjoy the journey with the Trio. I never in my wildest dreams thought a 2w amp of modest cost could satisfy. If you need a larger sound or more SPL a 4w amp like that of an AD1 tube a la the Yamamoto A06, or god forbid a Tom Evans Linear A or B will blow your mind with explosive dynamics and speed.
I'm sure the Lamm as mentioned is great too, but for that price you could have a couple or even three lovely amps for various moods in your arsenal.
Try audition the types of tube amp you could never have used before. Your 110db/w sensitivity and active bass allows even the smallest power amp to be bombastic and completely unstressed. It is a whole new "old" world! |
Or, better yet, look at Avantgarde's new XA series preamp and power amp. Very interesting. I heard it at the last year's CES. Beautifully made, as well. And I'm sure, you are not gonna have any gain issues with it. |
Mckorzi,
I used to run my uno's with my pass labs x350.5 and found the same issue.I had Albert at spacetech labs build me a gain attenuator for the amp. It has a fully adjustable knob. I have since changed to Tact equipment and not using the attenuator. If you are interested in it you can contact me.
Thx. |
I use xlr pads for my amp to speaker connection and they work perfectly fine. They cause no degradation of sound quality.
10 watt amps DO NOT give you the full potential of the Duo's no matter what others have said. 10 watt and tube amps will give a particular sound but not without consequences.
I am running the Pass Labs XA30.8 with much better results than a 20 watt amp I have tried already.
I just ordered trios and I might sell my Duo's in cade anyone wants to send me a message. I really love the Avantgarde horn sound and I may never buy another pair of main speakers again... Although owning a pair of ribbon tweeter based sprakers somewhere in my house is tempting. |
