AudiogoN Forums: Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

05-21-08

Responses (501-550 of 1935)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

12-07-08 Danmyers a crazy stubborn. yes maybe! my local high-end dea ... Volleyguy

12-08-08 You are certainly crazy stubborn, but that is not necessaril ... Danmyers

12-08-08 Dan i did listen more than maybe it seems. someone on here a ... Volleyguy

12-08-08 It's not unsurprising that the most expensive cap sounds goo ... Dgarretson

12-08-08 The claritycap mr is just a killer cap.. in most applicati ... Undertow

12-08-08 I just got a vintage tube amp all check over (tonight) and r ... Volleyguy

12-15-08 The x100 i should say sounds good but not very good. there i ... Volleyguy

12-15-08 One speaker with cast one with vsf. have not changed the ... Volleyguy

12-15-08 Volleyguy, exactly, the cast has the lowest noise floor by ... Stormen

12-15-08 Stormen is right but likely correct to temper expectations. ... Volleyguy

12-16-08 I take back any comment that the duelund in the midrange is ... Volleyguy

12-17-08 Have the duelund vsf now in both midranges. the only differe ... Volleyguy

12-17-08 Stormen you are not kidding. when i first put the cast in i ... Volleyguy

12-18-08 Stormen did mention the break in with cast being dark. he th ... Volleyguy

12-21-08 Now that i have found out what crossover caps can do i am re ... Volleyguy

12-22-08 I wouldn't pay too much attention to that url. perhaps the r ... Dgarretson

12-22-08 Here's another cap shootout....i agree totaly about the bg's ... Wavetrader

12-22-08 Thanks dave. those new set's are looking better. thanks wav ... Volleyguy

12-22-08 My experience is that with these ultra low noise caps...they ... Wavetrader

12-23-08 Volleyguy, yes, aren’t the cast just fantastic? i was shock ... Stormen

12-24-08: Volleyguy
Stormen the CAST are AMAZING!

They are dark and quiet when you first get them though. Also they are hard to get a handle on.

A friend was by tonight and I did not tell him which speaker had the CAST in. At first he did the same as most do. He liked the VSF. After awhile he changed to the CAST. Which makes me think we like resonance at first then once our brains can process what is going on we like prefer the low resonance.

He said it was like the speakers were "full range with the CAST and noisy with the VSF".

The downside to the CAST is and there is a downside in my mind. They will not cover up your amp or source!

I will end up getting rid of at least half my vinyl. The CAST are excellent as they are ULTRA low resonance.

The strange side effect to me is I may end up selling my turntable not because there is anything wrong with the Lp12 but the CAST have revealed that my vinyl is MUCH more worn than I thought.

What the CAST have shown me is maybe vinyl is not the way to go at this level. My very good vinyl sounds fantastic! My less than good vinyl is torn to shreds by the CAST.

There is no hiding and pretending that the vinyl is Ok.

My Karik has finally quit opening so I have only an old CD player and the CAST tears it to shreds as a piece of garbage. (which it is!)

For horn speakers (which is of course what mine are) the CAST are miles better! The VSF sound all washed out by comparison. Everyone who has heard them wondered if the speaker with the VSF was broken! No kiddding.

The CAST tilt the sound downward by the MASSIVE reduction in noise. So if you get CAST be expecting that because you will get it. It speaks volumes that given a choice with one speaker on VSF tweeters and one on CAST I am very content to always listen to the CAST.

I agree with Stormen and although I have not traded the VSF's away I can easily see why one would consider them one of the biggest upgrades one could do going from VSF to CAST. Who would have thought??? Not me!

So much for the theory of dimishing returns.

Another interesting thing is many say horns do not have bass. I think by nature horns amplify sound. Since most noise is in the high freq the horn will exagerate that freq. So the horns sound like lack of bass. The CAST through the huge reduction in noise change the tonal balance down. The CAST have given a side benefit and that is correcting a weakness in my speakers.

I am going to have to hear Burt's modern horns. (not buying anything soon but am curious)

I feel the CAST tweeter caps very good value but the midrange with out hearing it that is a lot of coin! For my speakers it would be $2200 plus tax and shipping for mid range caps. Silver CAST would be $15k for the pair! Holy Crap!

After hearing CAST I must admit it would be haunting to know how much noise they get rid of and putting coin some where else in the system. If your caps are noisy (and even VSF are noisy) how can you get the most out of your system?

I want to thank everyone who has helped along the way.

After looking at those CAST prices I do not want to even contemplate. I am going to put one CAST and one VSF in the tweeters and finish the rebuild and wrap this up.

I am moving on to tweaking up the amp and maybe a top notch digital front end and no vinyl. Maybe.

Thanks for all the help!
Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

12-24-08 Now it explains it... well i see where your true issues lie. ... Matrix

12-24-08 Matrix i am not spending more on caps. cast are much quiet ... Volleyguy

12-24-08 No doubt my post was not very clear.. **first i totally agr ... Matrix

12-24-08 Thanks matrix all clear i am leaning to the new set as well. ... Volleyguy

12-28-08 Gone through 120+ pieces of vinyl to be traded in. the noi ... Volleyguy

12-28-08 Stormen any experience in mixing vsf and cast? thanks Volleyguy

12-29-08 You might find this interesting....kevin hayes being intervi ... Wavetrader

12-30-08 Wavetrader i am very glad to hear that about the black gates ... Volleyguy

12-30-08 Glad to hear that your horns are singing again and that you' ... Danmyers

01-02-09 Thanks dan they are singing like they never have in the 28 y ... Volleyguy

01-03-09 Regarding the era of poor cds, i mean that the cds published ... Danmyers

01-04-09 Dan i came back to vinyl around late '90's. i went to buy a ... Volleyguy

01-04-09 Volleyguy, i don’t know, i find the duelund casts to be so ... Stormen

01-04-09 Your blue note recording from '58 was probably recorded on a ... Wavetrader

01-04-09 Sorry stormen for the confusion. my crossover is 2 2uf caps ... Volleyguy

01-04-09 Wavetrader how would you describe what the cast have done? ... Volleyguy

01-04-09 Wavetrader i have been doing some new vinyl reviews. for me ... Volleyguy

01-05-09 Volley...i'm sorry....i meant your experiment seems to have ... Wavetrader

01-05-09 Indeed the cast do have a profound effect. i can not imagine ... Volleyguy

01-05-09 Wavetrader when trading in the lp's i picked up a few cd's ... Volleyguy

01-06-09 Volley...late 50...early 60's....anything done by rudy vange ... Wavetrader

01-06-09 No don't be sorry for the "rant". i just did not ... Volleyguy

01-10-09 Funny i was listening to a rudy van gelder cd: "red cla ... Danmyers

01-14-09 Thanks dan i am a so so stones fan. i did find out that my ... Volleyguy

01-17-09 Volley, as i said earlier, i do not listen to lps anymore. b ... Danmyers

01-17-09 Volley, as i said earlier, i do not listen to lps anymore. b ... Danmyers

01-17-09 Looks like your guy aurthor s. recommends the krell standard ... Danmyers

01-25-09 Sorry dan slow reply. thanks i have gained some appreciatio ... Volleyguy

02-11-09 Humblehomemadehifi tested the cast: http://www.humblehomema ... Stormen

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