AudiogoN Forums: Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

05-21-08

Responses (201-250 of 1935)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

07-23-08 Well now we are getting silly, i agree cap physical size has ... Undertow

07-23-08 Actually i know for a fact a sonicap does not sound as good ... Undertow

07-23-08 To put the theory to rest, i just looked up and converted bo ... Undertow

07-23-08 Dear volleyguy: with all my respect to you and for what you ... Rauliruegas

07-24-08 Sorry guys late and off to bed. i will answer comments tomo ... Volleyguy

07-24-08 Rauliruegas, that may be so, but neither the duelund vsfs ... Stormen

07-24-08 Halcro yes, i use a duelund 10.37 uf for example. i also v ... Stormen

07-24-08 Duelund coherent audio to me show details 2:16 pm (19 hou ... Stormen

07-24-08 I e-mailed duelund about the connection to jensen and copy/p ... Stormen

07-24-08 Dear raul i guess we have to agree to disagree. i said i do ... Volleyguy

07-24-08 Dear stormen: yes i only refer to oil and in my experience t ... Rauliruegas

07-24-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ " all i did say is i agree with s ... Rauliruegas

07-24-08 Dear stormen: 10.37uf?, well that's great customer service: ... Rauliruegas

07-24-08 Undertow i am very confused by your comments. you cap size h ... Volleyguy

07-24-08 Undertow again i do not understand your comments against siz ... Volleyguy

07-24-08 Dear raul i am a rookie at this but like i said have owned ... Volleyguy

07-24-08 As mentioned numerous times, you need to let the sonic caps ... Face

07-24-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ this proves steen's theory that all t ... Rauliruegas

07-24-08 Stormen do you have any more writings by steen? also have ... Volleyguy

07-25-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ " read (on the net) it would be e ... Rauliruegas

07-25-08 $500 for caps? fostex t90a $300 pair, t900a under $800. with ... Johnk

07-25-08 Sorry raul i do not understand what you are saying??? Volleyguy

07-25-08 Johnk i can not say about the fostex tweeter as i have not h ... Volleyguy

07-25-08 Talked to partsconnextion. 3-4 week for custom caps from due ... Volleyguy

07-26-08 Supremes are alright the silver golds are much much better b ... Johnk

07-26-08 Johnk the reason i like the supreme's over the sio is just t ... Volleyguy

07-26-08 A friend of mine had the silver gold/oil installed in his ph ... Volleyguy

07-27-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ " sorry raul i do not understand ... Rauliruegas

07-27-08 Just came back from listening to my "main" system. ... Volleyguy

07-27-08 I did find more interesting reads on steen on the duelund we ... Volleyguy

07-28-08 Volleyguy, i find the cast clearly superior. i know that so ... Stormen

07-28-08 Thanks stormen i was afraid you would say that! i am looking ... Volleyguy

07-28-08 Personally, i would contact klipsch. they have a website an ... Stringreen

07-28-08 Hi stringreen i have contacted klipsch to buy replacement c ... Volleyguy

07-28-08 Cap order is in for 13uf vsf duelund. i am like my kids in c ... Volleyguy

07-29-08 Duelund makes custom orders like the 13uf i am getting and t ... Volleyguy

07-29-08 I will do much more burn in on the mundorf's. they are aroun ... Volleyguy

07-29-08 It would be relatively inexpensive to try alphacore air-core ... Dgarretson

07-29-08: Volleyguy
Dgarretson

I have talked to Chris about this as Alpha Core was top on my list.

He did say they sell many more D caps than inductors. I can not comment on the Alpha Core compared to vintage. In my mind one would want to spend more on tweeter caps than woofer inductors as the high freq is so much harder to get right.

Stormen where are you? Stormen did say the difference was big in inductors. The Duelund is certainly much better built as it is CAST and has zero vibration.

I do hear where you are coming from dgarretson. I remember reading somewhere in some Linn writings about vinyl and the stylus and how much tougher it was to pick up say a violin freq compared to a bass freq. The magnitude was shocking! It lead you to believe that you could error much more on the low freq than high.

So my next $ after mid caps are to try the CAST tweeter caps. If all goes well I may just buy the CAST inductor more out of repect to Duelund (for what they have done to my system) than any real gain coming. (compared to Alpha Core)

I can say the Duelund's have made my other speakers unlistenable. I am ticked in that sense that I wanted a system for the livingroom (and got one) as my Klipsch will never get there (they are in the basement) as my wife hates the looks of them. (can't blame her)

I am a LP12 fan and was planning on getting a Trampolin II maybe next and did believe the Linn theory that source is the most important.

I now have moved any Linn upgrades down below new caps for the Linn speakers. I also have doubts on Linn's cost effective Aktiv upgrades. I know they work. They do electronic crossover and remove the passive ones. I am just wondering if say Mundorf Supreme caps could do the same thing for wayyyyy less cost then two more expensive amps and crossovers?

I have moved into Steen's line of thinking. I have been there actually for awhile. (as I enjoy my Klipsch with vintage tube amp and fairly cheap CD player better than the better source better pre and better amp as the speakers seem the weak link) Linn's theory is good source cheap speakers beats poorer source better speakers. I do not know if I agree with that anymore. (well I know I don't)

Steen's with 50% of the system being the speakers. (Johnk you have to like that!) Steen saying that 50% of the speaker should be the crossover just upsets people!

So Dgarretson you may be right that AlphaCore inductors might be almost as good? But should we treat crossovers so lightly in this hobby? or is Steen right? I know you guys have not heard it and can be skeptical but I know I will never treat crossover (and caps) as some non important issue. In my mind the crossover has moved wayyyy up in importance.
Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

07-29-08 Volleyguy...for heaven's sake, get out your viola and old mu ... Stringreen

07-29-08 Stringreen it has been a long time since i played. in the ai ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 Volleyguy, i use copper foil througout my system, in various ... Dgarretson

07-30-08 Dgarretson. i do take with a grain of salt what the manufac ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 Dgarretson i have taken to heart what you said. i am going ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 Volleyguy, the question becomes-- given other constraints in ... Dgarretson

07-30-08 Dgarretson, i guess it comes down to how good do i think the ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 Duelund in the context of other upgrades? dgarretson i have ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 To the matter of proportion i can only say i have heard kari ... Dgarretson

07-30-08 I can not argue much with you at all on the karik. like i sa ... Volleyguy

07-30-08 Dgarretson, do you know anyone who has tried there ic's? i ... Volleyguy

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