AudiogoN Forums: Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

05-21-08

Responses (151-200 of 1935)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

07-19-08 Hi raul i think the results are similiar as tempoelectric. ... Volleyguy

07-19-08 Stormen there is no resistors in the "aa" klipsch ... Volleyguy

07-19-08 Volleyguy in my mind no chain is stronger than the weakest ... Stormen

07-19-08 I put the sonicaps back in to complete the breakin on them a ... Volleyguy

07-19-08 First off i will shed a little light.. i have experience wit ... Undertow

07-19-08 Thanks undertow i was starting to wonder if i had been to h ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 Stormen thanks you have given me something to think abou ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 Trying to put a number value on the cap difference. i have ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 After buying the sonicaps a light went off in my head that i ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 Volleyguy "i would like to hear some opinions on this ... Stormen

07-20-08 Still i feel using such costly parts on the poor old klipsch ... Johnk

07-20-08: Volleyguy
My Linn speakers look very nice (like many other brands) but no doubt use cheap caps.

Steen Duelund (I am impressed with dedication to the hobby a throwback to the past)

"That is really what you get even from the expensive part of the market. No real innovations, none new ways, as if normal methods are the best - but designs and finish are very impressive. Sadly this is for the eyes not for the ears".

"It seems difficult to build loudspeakers, which are more than 2-way, if you search the market. What has been gained, by these simple 2-ways constructions concerning recreation of a convincingly holographic picture of sound is lost, when more ways are chosen. Just consider how much energy has been put into the two way systems, to make them full range. None of them reaches the goal".

"In theory more ways should lead to better results, but practise has shown it otherwise. Normal filters and components are insufficient".

JohnK will like this quote. (Steen seems to be a horn guy)

"With a well-constructed horn and a single loudspeaker, much can be achieved concerning experience, but full range and relaxing to listen to, it will never be. But they can be very spellbinding".

I commonly hear that freq cutoffs should be abrubt from one driver to the other and Steen feels exact opposite.

"In the literature you’ll find "the perfect filter" described as having linear response until a sudden abrupt cut-off. That is probably correct concerning telecommunication but it can’t be more wrong with loudspeakers. There the cut-off must happen in a very gentle manner, so let us see, how this can be achieved".

Steen on caps (I feel somewhat vindicated now saying that the older caps were better. The Klipsch vintage caps when newer would kick the crap out of the cheaper plastic caps. The vintage caps simply no plastic and wayyyyy bigger. That being said the Duelund with no plastic is better than the vintage ever were. Anyone ever try the old Mica caps?)
I also feel somewhat vindicated about comments about the Sonicaps being just too small to do the job.

"From the great variety of types - stick to stack foils or variations on that theme if you can find them without plastics. The good old Micas works wonderfully well but they are far too expensive for greater values. Go for older types following the simple rule that bigger is better. A good sounding construction will be introduced from Jensen Capacitor in the near future". (An artificial stack foil, which regrettably only can be manufactured by hand for now.)

Interesting on sound our brain uses 4 senses? Wow did not know that?

"The brain in reality uses four of its senses by an acoustical event: hearing, sight, somatic tough for lower frequencies and even the sense of smell simultaneously.

Reproduction of only sound in a room creates problems for the brains treatment of sound — missing two stimuli, as I’ll rule out the smell".

Steen on loudspeaker cost relative to system.

"The price of the loudspeaker should mirror the price of the rest of your gear as almost equal. The reason is simple — the more quality gained from the electronic parts the more handwork must be invested in the mechanic/acoustical unit. A good loudspeaker has no easy way despite the manufacturer’s advertising of "The simpler- the better". It only for them is better and of course easier and cheaper".

That one is interesting for me as my Klipsch with cheap CD player (vintage Fisher tube amp) outperforms the expensive Linn gear with the cheaper (slightly) Linn speakers. Linn has always said source is the most important and Steen takes issue with that, saying 50% of the system cost should be in the speakers and I tend (even as a Linn fan) agree with Steen.
Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

07-20-08 Dear volleyguy: now that you are trying and give it time to ... Rauliruegas

07-20-08 Dear raul i am not buying any more sonicaps. i do just liste ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 Johnk i would have agreed on the tweeters until the duelund ... Volleyguy

07-20-08 I forgot to put volume size of the vintage caps and duelund ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 Volleyguy "steen duelund (i am impressed with dedicat ... Stormen

07-21-08 Thanks stormen i will check that out as well. the last one ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 I agree loudspeakers are the most important part of the syst ... Johnk

07-21-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ " i think the results are similia ... Rauliruegas

07-21-08 Dear volleyguy: +++++ " i did some measurements for som ... Rauliruegas

07-21-08 There are a few credible builders who have observed that whe ... Dgarretson

07-21-08 Volleyguy i am going to tell you this as i spoke once to the ... Undertow

07-21-08 Johnk i do think steen thinks a speaker should be designed a ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 Undertow i am not saying sonicap is bad at all! this is some ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 Volleyguy actually i was again not defending them, just shar ... Undertow

07-21-08 Thanks undertow where i am having a tough time is dividing ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 I have went through all the combo's again and still come bac ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 Volleyguy you are looking for a tuff call on that one.. i h ... Undertow

07-21-08 Thanks undertow yes i too think the midrange even more criti ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 Undertow if i understand what you are saying the inductor ma ... Volleyguy

07-21-08 First off if your woofer has no cap thats even better, secon ... Undertow

07-21-08 By the way see link below... this is the last outboard and f ... Undertow

07-21-08 Volleyguy, duelund will make up a capacitor to any value you ... Halcro

07-22-08 I am just rebuilding to original specs and the "aa" ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 I have e-mailed partsconnextion to find out about caps in pa ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 Did talk to partconnextion and they said parallel caps are b ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 Not sure what that means parallel caps are better than in se ... Undertow

07-22-08 Undertow i will post chris's response from partsconnextion. ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 Oh well simply stating the application itself being in paral ... Undertow

07-22-08 Wait a minuet, we might be confusing parallel! you mean para ... Undertow

07-22-08 I just talked to chris on the phone and he thought the duelu ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 Yes i mean two caps in parallel to total 13uf yes stacked to ... Volleyguy

07-22-08 Oh okay, well yes 2 in parallel the way you speak would be b ... Undertow

07-22-08 I am actually suprised from all your trials here you have no ... Undertow

07-23-08 Undertow i would have considered audio note if i had some r ... Volleyguy

07-23-08 The size of the mid caps vintage is (can type rounded edges ... Volleyguy

07-23-08 Trying to assess the sonicaps in the midrange and they are m ... Volleyguy

07-23-08 Ok, i can't take it anymore. this thing about cap size and i ... Merganser

07-23-08 Merganser not one cap has changed one bit in dynamics in br ... Volleyguy

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