AudiogoN Forums: Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

05-21-08

Responses (1051-1100 of 1945)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

01-14-10 Volleyguy, after removing the silk from the duelund wire yo ... Irish65

01-15-10 Thanks irish65 i believe my father actually has one of thos ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 One speakers woofer wired with duelund wire. sounds weird a ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 I would imagine the the duelund wire, like their capacitors, ... Sherod

01-17-10 If the solder you tried to use has a high content of silver ... Theaudiotweak

01-17-10 Thanks guys i should not have made it sound negative. i w ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Is there a photo somewhere of this duelund hook-up wire? i c ... Sherod

01-17-10 Volleyguy, this will depend on your listening preference an ... Irish65

01-17-10 Roger no issue with using this un-shielded/sans vibration b ... Theaudiotweak

01-17-10 Irish65 can you fill me in? the differences etc. i am quit ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Tom, i wouldn't use any wire in a vibrating speaker cabinet ... Irish65

01-17-10 If the duelund speaker wire has no vibration/resonance contr ... Theaudiotweak

01-17-10 Irish does that mean the copper wire will sound better due ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Tom, using the duelund wire in an external crossover would ... Irish65

01-17-10 Irish it sounds like you are being evasive? what is the so ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Roger i use some standard duelund resistors in my power amp ... Theaudiotweak

01-17-10 Volleyguy, not being evasive at all. this was your question ... Irish65

01-17-10 Here is a link to the manufacturers who use duelund products ... Sherod

01-17-10 Irish i do not mean it negative on being evasive. you must ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Irish you are right at this point what is a couple of hundr ... Volleyguy

01-17-10 Volleyguy, i did not take your comment as negative. i didn't ... Irish65

01-18-10 Irish great idea. 2.0 you say ouch! Volleyguy

01-19-10 My previous post that could be taken as a critiscm of the l ... Theaudiotweak

01-21-10 Tom i did not take it as criticism of duelund. i took it as ... Volleyguy

01-21-10 I do have one question for duelund as well. yes the wire sou ... Volleyguy

01-23-10 The oil is dried when you get the cable. it does not need to ... Duelund_coherent_audio

01-25-10 Thanks duelund well most of the speaker is all duelund wire ... Volleyguy

01-29-10 I am starting to wonder if i have not gone to far. the duel ... Volleyguy

01-29-10 I have researching wire. i never expected it to sound so dif ... Volleyguy

01-29-10 sounds like a plan! Face

01-30-10 Face, i would concur. Duelund_coherent_audio

02-01-10 The silver foil wire is in. it is smaller width wise than i ... Volleyguy

02-02-10 I have wired up the tweeter only with 28" (2) lengths o ... Volleyguy

02-03-10 Midrange wired to silver last night. it did not get hotter l ... Volleyguy

02-03-10 I have just completed re-wiring my infinity rsiib speakers w ... Ait

02-04-10 Thanks ait i was hoping to just get the duelund copper thin ... Volleyguy

02-04-10 I believe, that what you are hearing is more down to the sha ... Duelund_coherent_audio

02-04-10 Duelund i think you are right. i am glad you are making a ... Volleyguy

02-05-10 Are you still doing this to the klipschs? wouldn't it have b ... Johnk

02-06-10 Johnk i may be crazy, not sure? is burt doppenburg still no ... Volleyguy

02-07-10 I really like the duelund silver wire. took me a while to ... Volleyguy

02-08-10 I would agree klipsch can be a good value. still i would buy ... Johnk

02-08-10: Volleyguy
Johnk

It all started in confusion as to why the Klipsch sounded much more life like than my modern gear? It was a second system and I was selling the Klipsch when a guy brought by a vintage tube amp and I went Holy Smokes that sounds life like. If was the first time I had heard an all foil system.

I decided to keep them and replace the worn out foil caps. The funny thing was as soon a modern poly caps went in they sound like modern speakers and the qualities I liked were gone. A fake plastic sound. I thought horns were the reason they sounded the way they did? Then came better caps (Mundorf Supreme and Silver in Oil) better dynamics but still plastic sounding. Duelund was only used because they were the only parts I found to be clearly better than original. I agree with Steen Duelund when he said he could clearly hear that the Jensen caps were much more life like than ANY poly cap. This was when he had nothing to sell.

At this point it my curiousity that was really peaked. As much for my own understanding. You might be right about different drivers etc. but many of the faults you heard on the Khorns are the crossover parts and internal wiring. Horns will amplify (as you of course know) any resonance of the caps into a drone.

The alternative after hearing Duelund parts is to either buy new speakers with Duelund parts and for sure that will not be cheap! To me after what I heard it is an absolute must for Duelund in the crossover. So any choice of speaker will start with as few as possible parts or one will be broke. (or at least I will)

So it comes back to what is a better deal? One can take their pick of almost any speaker used and gut the crossover and I bet in every case it comes out as a fantastic deal.

I agree the Khorns are a great deal in N.A. 60 years of production and still making them keeps used prices down.

I don't know but a vintage tube amp point to point recapped with Jensen Copper Paper tube or Duelund, re wired likely with Duelund Silver or copper flat wire likely around $1500 in total. (unless of course more Duelund caps)

I will have around $3k (roughly I think maybe a little more) in parts for the speakers that I already owned.

I have wasted a LOT more money in Audio than I have now and have not even come close in sound by light years. The humiliation that the vintage tube amp gave my modern gear has made me more tight fisted with the $.
Volleyguy (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

02-09-10 I highly upgraded the k horn network. used hi quality parts ... Johnk

02-13-10 I have upgraded my crossover with mundorf s&o caps on my aog ... Gallant_diva

02-13-10 Gallant_diva you make a huge missing point in this discuss ... Undertow

02-13-10 $64000 for caps:) crazy world for sure. Johnk

02-13-10 Undertow: i do not miss the point. in fact, i am believer in ... Gallant_diva

02-15-10 Gallant_diva i think you mis-read my comments, i said " ... Undertow

02-15-10 I should have said " you made a huge missing point" ... Undertow

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