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  Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?
Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
Ktstrain  (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

05-18-08
  Responses (1-63 of 63)
Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

05-19-08   I generally agree that one cost of high fidelity is having o ...   Tvad

05-19-08   I generally agree with your assessment... which is why for t ...   Smeyers

05-19-08   Alternatively, all you're hearing is a tweeter that's harsh ...   Gregm

05-19-08   No, harshness is due to a flaw in the system. the natural s ...   Jburidan

05-19-08: Onhwy61
In decibels, what volume level are you trying to achieve? The titanium or any other tweeter material didn't cause your tinnitus, it was exposure to very loud sound.
Onhwy61  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


05-19-08   Can't help with the best tweeters out there but i have heard ...   Ryder

05-19-08   I know of no cheap tweeters that dont exibit the problems yo ...   Johnk

05-19-08   Ia gree that issues in the system are contributing. herbies ...   Tweak1

05-19-08   When you get to a certain level of quality in your system, m ...   Corby

05-19-08   This is quite normal. you are hearing either tweeter compres ...   Shadorne

05-19-08   When you get into this territory, every element can potentia ...   Dcstep

05-19-08   It's amazing to me how many of the most expensive systems sh ...   Dog_or_man

05-19-08   of course, another possibility is simply that your expectat ...   Shadorne

05-19-08   Ktstrain, i have not been a fan of speakers built in a box ...   Stiltskin

05-19-08   Based on your requirements, gallo ref 3s might be worth an a ...   Jeffreyds

05-19-08   Shardorne, i agree that drums, trumpet and trombone have bit ...   Dcstep

05-19-08   Dave, i could not agree more - you gave some great suggest ...   Shadorne

05-19-08   Dave, oh and lest i forget - robbie williams "swing whi ...   Shadorne

05-19-08   Maybe you should take a vaction from cones. try a different ...   Mrtennis

05-19-08   Great suggestions. i've got the top on d2d sheffeild lab. &q ...   Dcstep

05-19-08   Yes, gallo ref. 3s do what you want - crystal clear with no ...   Rlwainwright

05-19-08   As previously stated, titanium did not cause your tinnitus; ...   Fatparrot

05-19-08   Thanks for the list of suggestions. it's no wonder i left t ...   Ktstrain

05-19-08   One or two observations. the focal micro utopia be are 89db ...   Tvad

05-19-08   Well, that added information is useful for sure. you're more ...   Dcstep

05-19-08   One of the best tweets in the bussiness are on the sequerra ...   Racamuti

05-19-08   As i was reading tvad's response before getting to the end, ...   Pubul57

05-19-08   at the spl levels the poster mentions a speaker this size i ...   Shadorne

05-19-08   I think that you must be clipping all three of the amps you ...   Halcro

05-19-08   Kurt, it sounds to me like you are running into more than on ...   Atmasphere

05-19-08   More information you may need to formulate an opinion: all ...   Ktstrain

05-20-08   From stereophile: maybe this isn't your speaker? the redwin ...   Tvad

05-20-08   Ktstrain- if you want to play horns and cymbals loud and cl ...   Kana813

05-20-08   I noticed the speaker specs i copied into my post above were ...   Tvad

05-20-08   Seems to me like kurt is a candidate for some selah line arr ...   Ngjockey

05-20-08   like i said light rigid materials all tend to ring like a b ...   Shadorne

05-20-08   Kana813, you got a few things wrong; since i retired the cj ...   Dcstep

05-20-08   Age cures all harshness.   Gawdbless

05-20-08   kurt, challenging in consumer audio yes - because such hig ...   Shadorne

05-20-08   I'm just afraid that kurt has already damaged his hearing; t ...   Dcstep

05-20-08   I'm one for letting each person decide for himself how loudl ...   Tvad

05-20-08   Huh, what'd you say???   Dcstep

05-20-08   Dcstep what you say is true that my hearing is already dama ...   Ktstrain

05-20-08   Kurt said: "i probably ought to think about reverting ...   Dcstep

05-20-08   Kurt- if you've got the space, check out a line source spea ...   Kana813

05-20-08   Kurt, have you ever tried a pro audio speaker, especially an ...   Drubin

05-22-08   Try a professional studio speaker, e.g., tannoy 215 dmt ii, ...   Jburidan

05-22-08   Up above, the revelator is a scanspeak product. the good se ...   Drubin

05-22-08   I tend to think you have to think about the speaker as a who ...   Mothra

05-22-08   Great post, mothra. thanks.   Tvad

05-23-08   agreed - and yes the dunlavy's are awesome - and the midran ...   Shadorne

05-23-08   The thread should read: "harshness in tweeters: the pr ...   Mrtennis

05-23-08   "many recordings are hyped and all are voiced around th ...   Kana813

05-25-08   Kurt, i also have the red wine amp, but mine is the 70.2. i ...   Kclone

05-26-08   Dear ktstrain: imho i think that there are ( at least ) two ...   Rauliruegas

05-26-08   In response to the latest round of theories. i have tinnitu ...   Ktstrain

05-27-08   Thanks for that detailed and very instructive explanation, k ...   Drubin

05-27-08   Kurt, it is not just the speakers. it is the room response w ...   Dan_ed

05-27-08   cinemas can play very loud cleanly. same as large pro speak ...   Shadorne

07-19-08   To my ears, the best melding of liveness w/o harshness on ev ...   Rgs92

07-19-08   Tweeter harshness at high level is related to few things in ...   Kijanki

07-19-08   If you'd like to get past this conundrum, consider the amazi ...   Mdhoover

07-19-08   Balance... some low level efficiency and clarity will cost y ...   Undertow


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