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  VAC Sig Ren MK2a Headscratcher
I am thinking about adding a solid-state amp (DNA-500) to my system to drive the bass cabinets of my VR-7se's. Currently I have 1 set of balanced outs going to 2 VAC 300.1s that are each driving a VR-7se speaker full range. The other set is driving my subwoofer.

If I disconnect the sub and hook up the 500 to these balanced outputs from the pre, with the 500 speaker outputs going to the bass cabinets of the VR-7se's, will this work? Only problem I can see is that both modules of each speaker will be receiving a full range signal, but only using a portion of it depending upon the drivers. Balancing will be a snap as the volume control will control the 500, with the attentuating knobs on the VACs available to balance the rest of the speaker to the bass.

Will I be doing any damage this way? Is there a better way to do this w/o complicating things with crossovers, etc? Does what I'm proposing make sense? The 7's love power and I had the DNA-500 sitting in a closet.... Seems like this way I can get the best of both worlds, with about 750w going to each bass unit and 300 VAC tube watts (50w+/- Class A) going to each mid/tweet/super-tweet module. On paper, seems like a great idea, BUT...Before I go very far down this path, I'd really like to get some feedback and answers to these questions above.

Thanks in advance for any light you can shine in the tunnel.. :-)

BTW- just replaced noisy Dragon 6dj8 pre driver tubes with Seimens NOS 7308's - quieter(obviously), better imaging, bigger soundstage, more air and a bit tighter bass - after 1 hour!! Will only get better - more expensive but worth it IMHO. YMMV.
Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

02-12-12
  Responses (1-27 of 27)
Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

02-12-12   What you are describing is a conventional passive bi-amp arr ...   Almarg

02-12-12   Thanks al - you are correct about the transformer coupled ou ...   Fplanner2010

02-12-12   Hi fplanner2010, if you got a pair of vac's statement 450's ...   Dev

02-12-12   Hi dev- still stock fuses. actually, it was thinking about ...   Fplanner2010

02-12-12   I see what you are doing but no solid state amp that i have ...   Dev

02-12-12   Fp, are you sure about the dna-500 being 500 w/ch in class a ...   Rgd

02-12-12   Dev- the dna-500 is the sweetest,most tube-like solid state ...   Fplanner2010

02-12-12   Steve mccormack as quoted in this review : as steve explain ...   Almarg

02-12-12   Fplanner- yes i look forward to hearing those tubes. the dn ...   Dev

02-12-12   Al- thanks for clarifying on the dna-500 - i feel a bit emba ...   Fplanner2010

02-13-12   i suspect that if you connect the sub you would be connectin ...   Almarg

02-13-12   Hi fplanner- no worries it's just a discussion of agree to d ...   Dev

02-13-12   Al- yikes!!! now i'm scared to turn anything on!! just kidd ...   Fplanner2010

02-13-12   Mbl 101e's   Dev

02-13-12   Hi dev- did you ever try the 500 in your system? if so, do ...   Fplanner2010

02-13-12   Hi fplanner, yes i did, i actually owned one. tried it with ...   Dev

02-13-12   I'm running a similar biamp setup with vr5-annis. double kr ...   Kernelbob

02-14-12: Fplanner2010
Kernelbob - That's quite a nice system you've got there. I heard a pair of 4 jrs bi-amped and fully driven this past weekend and the sound was literally amazing. I can only image how much even better your system must sound with the amps you are using. It gives me hope that maybe what I'm about to do might actually work!!

I have some questions, if you don't mind. How did you match the outputs between the top and bottom amps? Also, did you use an electronic crossover, or just the ones in the speakers? Have you always run them this way? Sorry for so many questions, but this is pretty new for me.

As far as your friend's system is concerned, not sure what speakers he's running but regardless, he should hear a significant improvement once those VAC tubes start to sing.

Thanks very much for sharing your experiences.

Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-14-12: Dev
Kernelbob,

Kronzillas, I like those amps. That would be an intersting set-up to hear. How are you dealing with matching, what's the rest of your system?

Does your friend have the same speakers also.

Dev  (Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-14-12: Kernelbob
I had been using Spectron monoblocks full range for a couple of years. When I had an opportunity to get the Double Kronzillas (two output transformers on each monoblock), I couldn't resist. The Krons do some amazing things, but the Spectrons shine on the bass with their grip and definition on the woofers. In monoblock mode, the Spectrons have a 100k bandwidth, so they have the speed to seamlessly blend with the Krons.

I would not recommend touching the internal crossovers nor adding an external crossover. I suppose I could pick up a bit more headroom by putting a high pass filter in front of the Krons, but so far I've never run out of volume and why add more stuff in the signal path? On the VR5-Annis, the Spectrons need to be attenuated by about 3 to 4 dB when both amps are driven by my ARC REF3-- there are lots of options out there for attenuators. The net impedance of the amps is lower than the REF3 published specs recommend, but I've not noticed any audible rolloff of the highs.

I tried the biamping route when I auditioned the Krons just to see if it was worth keeping the Spectrons instead of taking the price hit on the used market. Well, I was amazed how well they worked together and have never looked back. The result is definitely more than the sum of the parts. By the way, my friend is using VR5-Annis also. I don't know if he's going to keep the Spectrons or go full range with the VAC 300.1a.

Kernelbob  (Answers | This Thread)


02-14-12: Fplanner2010
Thanks Bob - Enjoy The Music!!!
Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-14-12: Dev
Interesting, you are using a ARC REF3 pre. I recall reading a thread discusion some time back that the owner owned a REF3 also and paired it up with the Spectron mono blocks and was a desaster, I then read from others whom tried and also did not favour.

I'm still not getting is because both amps are totally different and you are bi-amping such just pluged into the REF3, Correct?

I have personally never heard positive results in doing such so I'm kinda left scratching my head with this one and I personally owned a REF3 for 4 years.

Dev  (Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-15-12: Kernelbob
Mixing different amps for biamping

Dev, sure the Spectrons and Krons are very different amps. So are the woofers and midrange drivers in the VR5-Annis. I don't understand why that matters. The Spectrons have tremendous control over the magnesium woofers with a very high damping factor as well as being very fast. They generate righ, deep bass with lots of information, not just weight. This information-rich bass mates very well with the Kron's similarly information-rich, open, wide & deep delivery through the VR5's mid/tweeter module.

The combo has no hint of discontinuity throughout the frequency spectrum. I was surprised by how well they work together. One thing, the Spectron amps got a major performance upgrade when I installed VonSchweikert/Delphi_Aerospace Masterbuilt Signature powercords. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe the qualitative jump in quality that this provided-- I know I wasn't expecting it to make that much difference. Every time I demo the difference (vs Shunyata Python or Anaconda CX) folks are amazed.

What type of problem would you expect to see "just plugged into the REF3"? The only thing one needs to do is to adjust the volume to the Spectrons with an in-line attenuator of some type to reduce their volume by 3 or 4 dB.

Kernelbob  (Answers | This Thread)


02-15-12: Fplanner2010
Thanks Bob. What kind of attenuators are you using? I'm using balanced cables between pre and amps. Scott Endler's 24 step variable looks best, but he's several months behind in production and I can't find any balanced used. Rothwell fixed at 10 is also an option, but they are literally out of stock in England and I can't find any balanced here. Find plenty of microphone attenuators and pads, but have been told they won't work for my application.

Any suggestions of balanced in-line attenuators that are actually available? WOn't now for sure I'll need them until this weekend - for now, I'm 90% sure I will. Thanks

Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-17-12: Fplanner2010
Kernelbob- Can you shed any additional light?
Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)


02-18-12: Kernelbob
attenuator info... again

I've tried submitting this post several times, but here's a 6-Moons article with links to various attenuator sources.

www.6moons

Kernelbob  (Answers | This Thread)


02-19-12: Fplanner2010
Thanks - sorry for the trouble.
Fplanner2010  (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)



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