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06-12-10: Pubul57
I meant to say 50kohm input impedance or higher for the amp, not 5kohm - that would not work at all:)
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-12-10
You know how i feel. even with the atma-sphere s-30 i own w ... Clio09
06-12-10
Money back trial? these passives have always disappointed me ... Grannyring
06-12-10
I will chime in. first my sysyem has been built to be passiv ... Faziod
06-12-10
Trial period? Grannyring
06-12-10
Grannyring not this one. Faziod
06-12-10
It's not balanced. it's not for me. signed: the nonvocal m ... Ngjockey
06-12-10: Pubul57
Grannhyring, just to give you some context, my view of the Lightspeed is as a current and former owner of several highly regarded tube amps from Lamm,ARC.Joule, CAT, and Atma-sphere. Not that it proves anything, but I would not like this thing if it was in the least bit small, sterile and thin relative to anything. If the tube pres I have owned, and still own, are not the very best, they are close. The fact that this thing is $450 can hurt it for those use to 10K preamps.
Alas, it is not for everyone with its one single-ended, single input, but this thing does not sound like any of the stereotypes of passives, it has the signature of clean water, letting the source connect to the amp with minimal interference, without loss of any apparent bandwidth, or dynamics. It is not a bandaid preamp that will fix whatever isn't quite right or to once's taste in the rest of the system. A great source with a great amp and speakers are where this preamp will work best, even in the company of $$$$ components before it or after it. My feeling has always been that the preamp should be as neutral as possible with the coloration one prefers coming elsewhere in the system - making it more universally easier to use in many different system contexts.
I hope this unit is used by someone at RMAF so everyone can actually hear it and decide for themselves if it provides the type of sound they can be happy with. It would be nice if there were a 30-day trial, but I'm not sure if the low price and the long-distance transportation would make that viable - it is certainly light enough to ship around.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-12-10
It's not a preamp, it's a volume control. preamps have mult ... Onhwy61
06-12-10
i'm bringing mine there this year and hope to convince a fe ... Clio09
06-12-10
I'm with pubul57 on this one. the lightspeed has been provo ... Tradeontheweb
06-12-10
Having heard the benefits of balanced components in my home, ... Tvad
06-12-10
Love to put it up against my unit, but no trial. interestin ... Grannyring
06-12-10: Pubul57
You may or may not like it better than your unit, we all know that we personally gravitate to what we want, what we like, and what anybody else says doesn't really matter, IF we can trust our own ears and preferences, all I am saying about this preamp (semantics aside, I don't need a source selcetor) this thing is special in away that the other passives I have tried have not been able to match, and obviously has gone up against some pretty renowned tube preamps where at least some folks have concluded that it is preferable. So all I am saying is that as we seek the best sound avaialable, this $450 peramp (thing) is worth a try, even if at the end of the day you decide to stick with your active (tube?) preamps.
Maybe George HiFi will be able to figure out a trial scheme that can make sense to him, though he may already may be limited to how many he can make per month so I may be a moot suggestion. While I will use the Atma-Atma combo with balanced cabling, my other systems combos are going passive with the Lightspeed.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-12-10
Where are they available? Peter_s
06-12-10: Pubul57
You must order directly from the maker in Australia. A google search will help you find him. I get the feeling he is an individual making a few of these and he pursued this without the idea of starting a real business, but word-of-mouth has proabably driven more business than he expected, so I have no idea how long it takes form him to make and deliver, especially after Sam Telligs review which essentially reached the entire North American audiophile community. He does have a minimalist website.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-12-10
hi fellow audiophiles, first off let me thank you paul for ... Georgelofi
06-13-10
I love my lightspeed, but it is not in my system for one sim ... Fiddler
06-13-10
There is another ldr preamp on the market called lighter not ... Dracule1
06-13-10
Best preamp ever by definition is the one that matches your ... Marakanetz
06-13-10
For members who wish to know how i started the lightspeed at ... Georgelofi
06-13-10: Pubul57
My interest in passives started when I read on Arthur Salvatore's website "if your source is up to the task of driving your amp(s), then no active linestage, no matter how good it is, will ever equal the sonics of your direct connection (or an equivalent passive)". This coming from a tube-centric audiophile made me ponder this for a long time. He goes on to describe the circumstances under which an active linestage would be needed. I read this and left this continuing with my various tube linestages, not sure if it was warmth I was looking for, but certainly dimensionality which I always found lacking in SS preamps.
Then I bought a couple of amps from Roger Modjeski, the Music Reference RM9SE and RM10s. Knowing he could design anything he wanted to, I noticed that he made the move from active tube linestages to passive and asked him why, this guy obvioulsy loves the sound of tubes, not only making gear with tubes, but also the best tube tester on the market, and he said just what Salvatore said, no active line stage would be better than a high-quality pot based passive with his amps (100kohm input, and high sensitivity). Asked about buffers, tranformers, blah, blah, and he said I can make you whatever you want ("I'll put a tube or two in it if it makes you happy"), but he repeated, nothing will be beat a passive preamp with no buffer IF mathed correctly between source, cables, and amp.
As to Fiddler's comment on warmth and dimensionality, I have to say we all want dimensionality (as long as it doesn't come at the expense of timbral accuaracy)and in this aspect I do not feel any loss of this important aspect compared with my Joule and Atma-sphere preamps. The area of warmth is a little more difficult to put my finger on, perhaps more subjective, and prone to the influence of preference. I will say that he idea of "adding" warmth is not something I am comfortable with, but that is just me, with the LS I feel I am getting as much warmth or lack of it as is in the source. The apparent warmth will vary with the recordings, and that is a very good sign to me, that is when the sonic attributes of a piece of gear change, or is dictated, by the recording - it tells me the gear is not putting an overlay over a recording that can be heard regardless of what one might find in the recording itself.
What I find with the LS is that the issue of soundstaging, dimesionality, apparent bass and highs, etc. is dependent on the recording, and for my approach to building as system, this is the way it should be, but that does not mean it is eveyone's cup of tea regarding the sound they are looking for.
But, these are all words, which don't mean a thing compared to trying one of these things in your system, knowing, and accepting, its ergonomic (one input/output) and electrical (gain and impedance matching) limitations, and judging for yourself.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-13-10
I would like to build one, but include an output buffer (tub ... Dividebytube
06-13-10
I have a passive in my system now based on a 50k tkd attenua ... Brab
06-13-10
For those of you who have been around the boards a long time ... Sibelius
06-13-10
I agree with dividedebytube (interesting username) can this ... Grannyring
06-13-10: Pubul57
Apparently something like this was once used in the Melos preamp years ago, and in the current DarTzeel (something like it).
I finished my last post by saying try it, since it is almost impossible to avoid cliams of overhype when talking about a preamp most have not heard, and lord knows there have been many flavor of the month, buzz pieces that are long forgotten shortly thereafter. So all I can do is recommend you try it if it might fit your system.
I only offer the context of my views, as a previous owner of many passives that left me feeling like those here that have expressed dissapointment with there efforts at using a passive. First of all I have owned almost every passive of the past five years of all the basic desing approaches and always preferred my active tube line stages. As an interesting point two of the folks that like the Lightspeed have also owned Joule preamps which are on the warm, musical, meaty, organic, etc side of the preamp spectrum, so we know that sound, and in that context, the LS does not dissapoint - it is not cold, sterile, lifeless, flat, missing PRAT, etc. Now, I don't know how to address the warmth issue, since two of my favourite preamps are the CAT SL1s and Atma-sphere and they are not known to be "warmth-lover" preamps, so it may be I don't find warmth as seductive as others, though I do love my Joule LA150 Signature Edition which is warmer than the other two.
Yet one cannot predict how each of us might react to this thing, which is why I say you have to try it and decide for yourself, if it was $5,000 I would want alot more evidence and listening sessions, but for $500 it is within reach of most of us in the forum to decide for ourselves without coming to conclusions drawn from sources other than our own ears.
Best preamp ever? I do think that is a silly question, or at least silly to believe such a thing exists, it does not and cannot. But, the Lightspeed is very, very good, and sound like this from a $5-10,000 preamps (the price of my last five tube preamps) would be great, at this price it seems like a must audition, at minimum, for those on a budget with something like a Music Reference RM10 (1k-2k - used/new) and 89/90db or higher sensitivity, flat impedance speakers for a first rate system at an "affordable" price. For those with plenty of $$$ to spend, at this price it is simply worth trying for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Even if it does sound as great as I (and others that have heard it/ owned it) am saying, it still will not be the preamp for everyone, since it is VERY limited as a source selector, and does require a source, short (2m) ICs, and amps that can work with a passive - not all can. Just as I would not make claims about 4 watt SET amps sound like from listening to them on a pair of B&W 802s or Thiel 3.6s - I exaggerate to make a point.
If you live near Baltimore, come over for a listening session and compare it with my Joule and Atma-sphere setups and tell me what you think, easy enough to compare.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-13-10
clio09 so this was the 'passive' preamp you started using. ... La45
06-13-10
George, why is it that i can hear music still playing with t ... Faziod
06-13-10
The morrison elad is just a normal active preamp using norma ... Georgelofi
06-13-10
Faziod hi you will hear very low level of music at minimum l ... Georgelofi
06-13-10
Sibelius i have heard in my system the morrison elad and it ... Faziod
06-13-10: Pubul57
Fazoid, I think you had the Bent TVC? An very good passive preamp. I've had Placette, S&B TVC, and Bent/Slagle autoformers, and a few others. While I thought they were all exceptional values with excellent sound, I nevertheless, ultimately preferred my active tube preamps that I owned at the same time. The LS is the first to make me think I may not need them anymore, though I may keep them for the same reason I keep 3 amps, I like audio gear:). This is not a poor man's preamp, though it is affordable to many, it is actually pretty expensive for what it is in terms of parts, but what you pay for is years of perfecting the basic idea and the painstaking matching of the components to get proper balance between channels. You could, I suppose build one of these with George's instructions found on the DIY boards for less than $100, for some of you with the skills that may be an option -- I'm sure I would manage to start a fire.....
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-13-10
La45, yes this was the one i started using a while ago, arou ... Clio09
06-13-10
Pubul57 yes i owned the bent tvc and it was excellent but la ... Faziod
06-13-10
Sorry, itchy trigger finger. for some time i had been a bi ... Clio09
06-13-10: Pubul57
Anthony, Roger Modjeski was gracious enough to explain to me why he thought resistor passive would be theoretically better than tvcs or avcs (the Audiogon consensus was that TVCs were far better than resistors, that TVCs 'blew them out of the water - which always seemed an overstament), but you know how he gets with technical explanations, he quickly lost me. When I had the Placette I like it very much, and I do think it might be fruitful to go back for comparison, but I suspect that the fact the Lightspeed has no physical contact points, no mechanical interface, no oxidation, no wearinmg out with time and swipes, might be an unbeatable advantage, even for Swiss crafted, jewel-like, precisely machined or lazer edged attenautor contacts:)
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-13-10
I still say it's not a preamp! any direct comparisons to ot ... Onhwy61
06-13-10: Pubul57
Lightspeed Attenuator, Best device for controlling volume in an audio system ever? including "real" preamps?
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-13-10
In regards to comments on the morisson elad. i too read t ... Tradeontheweb
06-14-10
In the lightspeed design taking the switch out of the equati ... Clio09
06-14-10
Clio09 but the noble pots, as good as roger feels they are, ... Georgelofi
06-14-10
this is the actual test recommended by arthur salvatore to ... Clio09
06-14-10: Pubul57
Arthur Salvatore also says, in an interesting way, that if your systems sounds better, in any way, than a direct connection or passive, then your system needs and active preamp (he says most systems do) - because in some way your just not matched right. AS' views is that passive is the best, unless you need active. I'm pretty sure my system does not need an active for gain or impedance matching and therefore it is unlikely that any active preamp or volume control/gain device will improve over what essentialy (as George points out) is as close as you can get to a direct connection between my source and amp.
If amplyfying that signal through additional wire, capacitors, transisitors or tubes etc, only to attenuate that additional gain can some how improve on the original source signal, I just don't see how it can do that unless that signal needs all sorts of conditioning to drive the ICs and amp. My 2v or 3.9v outputs from the EMM Labs CD player don't need such help to drive the amps, and if there is dimensionality and warmth in a recording it is there at the output of the CD Player, not fabricated in an active tube or SS linestage - and if it is the byproduct of the linestage, I don't want to hear that as it will be an overlay on everything you listen to.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-14-10
Actives can sound better to some because they like the chang ... Grannyring
06-14-10: Pubul57
You can't argue with what people like, which is the only criteria that is important. I suppose the straight wire with gain approach is almost a philosophical stand, even when that might not necessarily result in the most enjoyable sound, a bad recording has no place to hide. This is proabably an issue that can never be resolved, there simply might not be a right or wrong here.
The Lightspeed does minimal (even compared to other passives) alteration to the signal (noise, distortion, bandwidth anomalies) and does this very well, if that is what you are looking in volume control (true to the source) it will serve you well.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
06-14-10
We are on the same page pubul57. your comments are well thou ... Grannyring
06-14-10
Active preamps are for the most part tone controls (a good c ... Clio09
06-14-10
I could agrue that a tone control does nothing for stage siz ... Grannyring
06-14-10
I would guess nearly 99% of good quality cdp dacs have an ou ... Georgelofi
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