AudiogoN Forums: Why do amps sound different?

Why do amps sound different?

Hi folks, can anyone tell me why amps sound different? I know this is a very trivial question, but it isn't so trivial as I previously thought. For example: an amp can sound "warm", while the other can sound "lean" and a bit "cooler". These amps measure the same on the test bench, but why do they sound different? What causes the "warm" characteristic if the amp has pretty good measurements and frequency characteristics? It is certainly not measurable high frequency roll off, otherwise the amp sucks. Maybe one of the experts among us can elucidate this issue a bit. Thank you.

Chris

Dazzdax (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

03-09-08

Responses (1-43 of 43)

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

03-09-08 A very likely reason two amps can sound different, yet measu ... Germanboxers

03-09-08 Assuming only the amp changed in the signal chain, is being ... Bob_reynolds

03-09-08 Tia - i am most certainly not any kind of expert, but i did ... Mr_hosehead

03-09-08 I would bet that they don't really measure the same on the t ... Pbb

03-09-08 I am far from an expert, but from what i have read, measurem ... Cyclonicman

03-09-08 We need to bring back julian hirsch from the grave to recite ... Tiger

03-09-08 Generally if there is an audible difference then a differenc ... Shadorne

03-09-08 Cost. every amplifier is designed to a price point. since th ... Gs5556

03-09-08 I'm thoroughy convinced that we don't know how to measure so ... Danlib1

03-09-08 Amps are like ice cream flavors. i agree with most threads h ... Philefreak

03-09-08 nah, leave him there. it's threads like this one that demon ... Nickword

03-09-08 You don't listen to an amp. you listen to a system. Curtis

03-09-08 Danlib hit the nail on the head. two amplifiers can measure ... Davemitchell

03-10-08 Consider tube amplifiers. replacing the tube with a differen ... Mrtennis

03-10-08 Amps all measure differently, except our measurements are ac ... Ktstrain

03-10-08 Kurt, thanks for your input. a highly reputable swiss manufa ... Dazzdax

03-10-08 they measure the same? what did you measure? Pauly

03-10-08 Kurt, i like your wine example. in amplifiers, it is tim, i ... Shadorne

03-10-08 Dazzdax, that is still just one group of people's opinions. ... Ktstrain

03-10-08 Shadorne, the levels of distortion that can ruin an amp can ... Ktstrain

03-11-08 Although alluded to before, it seems that the amount of nega ... Atmasphere

03-12-08 Another interesting thread with great contributions by every ... Amfibius

03-13-08 Amfibius, take a look: http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/pa ... Atmasphere

03-13-08 I never look to specs other than output power to make an amp ... Phd

03-13-08 Phd, one of the distinctions of the power paradigm vs the vo ... Atmasphere

03-13-08 Atmasphere, you are correct, that distinction has been clear ... Phd

03-14-08 Ktstrain, great posts. very interesting. Joeylawn36111

03-14-08 While i enjoy and value atmasphere's posts on the subject, i ... Kirkus

03-15-08 Kirkus, how did the loudspeaker designers gain enough levera ... Cyclonicman

03-15-08 Well, cyclonicman, legend has it that james lansing, immedia ... Kirkus

03-17-08 Hi kirkus, i'm not the one who has created these paradigms; ... Atmasphere

03-18-08 Hi atmasphere . . . my main point is that hi-fi speaker desi ... Kirkus

03-18-08 Kirkus, the acoustic research ar-1 is a good example of a sp ... Atmasphere

03-19-08 Atmasphere, i owned ar-3s (identical to ar-1 except for mid ... Kirkus

03-19-08 Hi kirkus, i have a set of ar-3s myself- i use them for moni ... Atmasphere

03-20-08 Okay, so i am a little jealous of your ar-3s. mine went awa ... Kirkus

03-20-08: Atmasphere
Kirkus, Your technique for the D130s should do the job. I'm not so sure about the other but why not give it a try?

I had one of those Knight 6 watt amplifiers too. FWIW the AR-3s really like power; I have a zero-feedback Dyna ST-70 that barely has enough power to make them go. They work OK in a smaller room though.

There are a number of tube amplifiers that have held on to their position like Nelson Pass' amplifiers. Western Electric 211 SETs for example- still worth a pile of cash after 6-7 decades!

I think the thing to get about this is that there has been an evolution. In the 1950s and 1960s, it appeared that the Voltage Paradigm was the way to go (certainly it made a good story for selling transistor amplifiers and cheaper speakers), but evolution has continued, especially tube research has continued. Tubes are not capable of the 'constant voltage' ideal- by rights they should not sound so good, but in fact they do. That does suggest that maybe the constant voltage model might have some holes. In fact the holes are the rules of human hearing: for the most part tubes adhere more closely to those rules than transistors.

Why did you keep your Knight?
Atmasphere (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

03-20-08 Atma, why do you say tubes obey the rules of human hearing m ... Wireless200

03-21-08 Hi atmasphere . . . i'll mock up the speakers this afternoon ... Kirkus

03-21-08 Kirkus, sounds like he did! since a feedback signal is one ... Atmasphere

03-21-08 Would an increase in sibilance at higher volume be a charact ... Tvad

03-21-08 Tvad, it can be (usually not clipping though), but there are ... Atmasphere

03-21-08 It's never easy. Tvad