Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
09-11-02
Based on what i have heard, i find your generalizations to b ... Zaikesman
09-11-02
I am a vinyl and tube man, that stated, i find that ss has i ... Detlof
09-11-02
I feel that there are system synergies that also must be tak ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
Tubegroover, you forgot thermionic coolosity in your analysi ... Clueless
09-11-02
I always like these threads. anyway, i'll chime in from the ... Dburdick
09-11-02
I actually like pairing a tube preamp with a solid state amp ... Sugarbrie
09-11-02: Twl
Hey you guys! How come I seem to be the only one who gets told that I must like the "euphonic" distortion of tube amps.
I read an extremely interesting article the other day on the web. The premise was, that single-ended triode amps sound as good as they do, because of system synergy with single driver speakers(primarily). It seems this guy did some distortion analysis of SETs, and speakers. The SET generated primarily second order harmonic distortion, which was the bulk of the total harmonic distortion measured, very little other. The speakers measured primarily second order harmonic distortion also, with very little other. These distortion characteristics mainly differed in phase relationship.
His hypothesis was that if, by way of chance, the 2nd order distortion of each item appeared at 180 degree phase angles apart, the distortion would be cancelled out, creating the "straight wire with gain" ideal. If they appeared at 0 phase angle(together), they would add, and distortion would double. Since either case was unlikely, his solution was to determine which side of the 90 degree phase angle the intersection was, and phase the speaker wiring to place the phase intersection of distortion closest to the 180 degree mark that you could. This way if it was at 30 degrees and adding, by reversing phase, you could put it at 210 by reversing phase and achieve a high level of distortion cancellation. If you leave it at a phase angle close to 0, then the distortion adds - bad. Since the majority of this occurs in the 2nd order on both items, once a certain percentage of this 2nd order cancellation occurs, the THD is dramatically lowered for both items as a package.
This is his reasoning for why SETs have the remarkable clarity they do, while measuring in distortion %, the way they do.
His finding was that by switching phase connections on your speakers, you could find out which way sounds better(reduces distortion) on your system. You don't have to use measuring equipment, just your ears. The goal is to have the amp distortion cancel the speaker distortion as much as possible with your equipment.
This is not possible with push-pull or SS amps, as their distortion characteristics are comprised of many orders of harmonic distortion, and are not coincident with the distortion characteristics of speakers.
The effect is somewhat lost on multi-driver speakers because of the phase changes induced between drivers by the crossover network.
So, while I cannot personally attest to the veracity of his findings, it sounds like a very interesting explanation for the apparent dichotomy of SETs measuring poorly and sounding great. The amp is not used to drive a measurement meter. It is used to drive a speaker, and as such may exhibit different behaviors when doing so, than some lab freak with a meter may even realize.
Maybe there is no "euphonic" distortion in SET amps, when you connect them to a speaker and listen to music. What a novel concept. I never really liked the sound of a meter anyway.
Twl (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
09-11-02
Twl, might as well give them the article. eduardo de lima ? ... Clueless
09-11-02
There is no doubt that tubes come in various flavors and col ... Bear
09-11-02
Each to their own taste! i use 33h on the mid/tweeter panels ... Beemer
09-11-02
Lamm 1.1 mono blocks do it all beautiful tube bloom and air ... Acuujim
09-11-02
My first tube amp was a kit i built in the early 60's, i hav ... Rec
09-11-02
Hey kevziek... i hate to break it to you, but on most recor ... Phild
09-11-02
I have to weigh in on the ss side when it comes to amps, not ... Karls
09-11-02
I own both solid state and tube pre-amps and amps (placette ... Drubin
09-11-02
Karls, you need to try listening to a berning zotl. one revi ... Twl
09-11-02
To further expand on the berning bass performance i will say ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
I feel that a considerable cost upgrade was required to get ... Blueswan
09-11-02
Dburdic, i agree with you about tube systems. i hear the tu ... Muralman1
09-11-02
I would add atma-sphere amps to this list. otl amps that rea ... Fatparrot
09-11-02
I've been very curious about the berning but never tried it. ... Karls
09-11-02
Karl, i think that it could do it, with the feedback selecto ... Twl
09-11-02
I concur with fatparrot on the atma-sphere assessment. i ha ... Wellfed
09-11-02
Karls-i haven't tried the zh270 into a load that dips low or ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
Tubegroover, see my last post above for my experiences at lo ... Twl
09-11-02
Sorry twl, i wrote my response prior to yours showing up and ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
While i generally agree with what you say about tubes and i ... Joe_b
09-11-02
Try the gamut line of amps. i have heard many more ss amps ... Tok20000
09-11-02
One of the reasons why the pass x-350 sounded better than th ... Bwhite
09-11-02
I have heard a lot of the expensive tube amps and always li ... Bobheinatz
09-12-02
Bwhite, you're right. how short-sided of me to ignore the ... Kevziek
09-12-02
I am still using the aloia 1501 and it still does it for me. ... Snook2
09-12-02
Kevziek, your response is refreshing. i need to restate my & ... Muralman1
09-13-02
Muralman, strangely, i never seriously considered a tube cd ... Kevziek
09-13-02
It is my opinion that tubes, used sparingly, lend a sense of ... Muralman1
09-13-02
Muralman1, in my limited experience the sonic frontiers line ... Unsound
09-14-02
I bought a used sf line 3 back in the spring of 2000. the o ... 7p62mm
09-14-02
Unsound and 7p, sonic frontiers is a great company. my pre a ... Muralman1
09-14-02
Personally, i think it is rather funny that some people thin ... Twl
09-14-02
Twl, its consistant with people preferring vinyl to digital. ... inpepinnovations@
09-14-02
Bob, if it were distortion, why do we think that it is somet ... Detlof
09-15-02
If you coun't blocking/chopping sound out (which is, in part ... Clueless
09-15-02
Detlof, i don't know why you think that vinyl-tube playback ... inpepinnovations@
09-15-02
Bob, i spoke of tubes distorting, not necessarily of a vinyl ... Detlof
09-15-02
If anyone on this board really thinks that i, or other tube ... Twl
09-15-02
I love the distortion i get with my ss amp. i went through ... Nrchy
09-15-02
Detlof, i agree with clueless that cds omit information whic ... Zaikesman
09-15-02
Zaikesman, you pose a very good question, which i have often ... Detlof
09-16-02
Many live events are heard via tubes. perhaps that's why man ... Unsound
09-16-02
Convenience, cost, etc. are valid reasons for choosing anyth ... Asa
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