Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.
09-11-02
Based on what i have heard, i find your generalizations to b ... Zaikesman
09-11-02
I am a vinyl and tube man, that stated, i find that ss has i ... Detlof
09-11-02
I feel that there are system synergies that also must be tak ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
Tubegroover, you forgot thermionic coolosity in your analysi ... Clueless
09-11-02
I always like these threads. anyway, i'll chime in from the ... Dburdick
09-11-02
I actually like pairing a tube preamp with a solid state amp ... Sugarbrie
09-11-02
Hey you guys! how come i seem to be the only one who gets to ... Twl
09-11-02
Twl, might as well give them the article. eduardo de lima ? ... Clueless
09-11-02
There is no doubt that tubes come in various flavors and col ... Bear
09-11-02
Each to their own taste! i use 33h on the mid/tweeter panels ... Beemer
09-11-02
Lamm 1.1 mono blocks do it all beautiful tube bloom and air ... Acuujim
09-11-02
My first tube amp was a kit i built in the early 60's, i hav ... Rec
09-11-02
Hey kevziek... i hate to break it to you, but on most recor ... Phild
09-11-02
I have to weigh in on the ss side when it comes to amps, not ... Karls
09-11-02
I own both solid state and tube pre-amps and amps (placette ... Drubin
09-11-02
Karls, you need to try listening to a berning zotl. one revi ... Twl
09-11-02
To further expand on the berning bass performance i will say ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
I feel that a considerable cost upgrade was required to get ... Blueswan
09-11-02
Dburdic, i agree with you about tube systems. i hear the tu ... Muralman1
09-11-02
I would add atma-sphere amps to this list. otl amps that rea ... Fatparrot
09-11-02
I've been very curious about the berning but never tried it. ... Karls
09-11-02
Karl, i think that it could do it, with the feedback selecto ... Twl
09-11-02
I concur with fatparrot on the atma-sphere assessment. i ha ... Wellfed
09-11-02
Karls-i haven't tried the zh270 into a load that dips low or ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
Tubegroover, see my last post above for my experiences at lo ... Twl
09-11-02
Sorry twl, i wrote my response prior to yours showing up and ... Tubegroover
09-11-02
While i generally agree with what you say about tubes and i ... Joe_b
09-11-02
Try the gamut line of amps. i have heard many more ss amps ... Tok20000
09-11-02
One of the reasons why the pass x-350 sounded better than th ... Bwhite
09-11-02
I have heard a lot of the expensive tube amps and always li ... Bobheinatz
09-12-02
Bwhite, you're right. how short-sided of me to ignore the ... Kevziek
09-12-02
I am still using the aloia 1501 and it still does it for me. ... Snook2
09-12-02
Kevziek, your response is refreshing. i need to restate my & ... Muralman1
09-13-02
Muralman, strangely, i never seriously considered a tube cd ... Kevziek
09-13-02
It is my opinion that tubes, used sparingly, lend a sense of ... Muralman1
09-13-02
Muralman1, in my limited experience the sonic frontiers line ... Unsound
09-14-02
I bought a used sf line 3 back in the spring of 2000. the o ... 7p62mm
09-14-02
Unsound and 7p, sonic frontiers is a great company. my pre a ... Muralman1
09-14-02
Personally, i think it is rather funny that some people thin ... Twl
09-14-02
Twl, its consistant with people preferring vinyl to digital. ... inpepinnovations@
09-14-02
Bob, if it were distortion, why do we think that it is somet ... Detlof
09-15-02
If you coun't blocking/chopping sound out (which is, in part ... Clueless
09-15-02
Detlof, i don't know why you think that vinyl-tube playback ... inpepinnovations@
09-15-02
Bob, i spoke of tubes distorting, not necessarily of a vinyl ... Detlof
09-15-02
If anyone on this board really thinks that i, or other tube ... Twl
09-15-02
I love the distortion i get with my ss amp. i went through ... Nrchy
09-15-02
Detlof, i agree with clueless that cds omit information whic ... Zaikesman
09-15-02
Zaikesman, you pose a very good question, which i have often ... Detlof
09-16-02
Many live events are heard via tubes. perhaps that's why man ... Unsound
09-16-02: Asa
Convenience, cost, etc. are valid reasons for choosing anything over something else - I do it all the time myself -but have no validity when discusing absolute quality, or rather, the closest to absolute than we can presently percieve and/or replicate.
I am not biased to one arrangement of matter versus another - and that is the bottom-line difference between one technology and another. If SS sound is more "real" - more like sound-sounds-like as I sit and think about it - or causes me to become more involved in the music at a greater, deeper, more progressive rate than tubes, then I would certainly go that way.
However, I see no need to sauve people's ideas by backing away from the obvious: there exists and has existed a discernable progression that occurs as one becomes adept at listening and more knowledgeable about what is available in technology, and that is: people in their progression move from SS at one end to tube at the other.
Every five years, we say that SS is closer to tube, the implicit assumption to that continuing discussion being that SS is not as good as tube. This is still the same case and it continues to be that case because it is true. No one who has gone over a long progression of evolution in stereo ever says that SS is better than tube because its not true. Isn't that an empiric pattern worthy of contemplation?
Now, what are the problems?
Here we go...SS does not produce space that is pressurized, that is congruent to the space that you exist in in a deep existential way; does not replicate the phenomena of sound as it moves through space that the deep, intuitive structures of the perceptive mind discern; does not offer a continuous simulcrum of the intra-relationship of how source and space are both separate and integral at the same time; does not replicate the "event horizon" of sound projection and surrounding space as a delineation to the the identifying part of the listening mind, and, simultaneously, impart a perception of no-boundary between sound and space to the receptive parts of the listening mind; does not impart an intuitive sense that depth progresses back infinitely, rather than in planes defined by the players on them with a rear plane that, by its existence, defines rear space; does not infuse the deep harmonic fabric of the core note with air, so that sound is seen as integral with space (as it is in "reality"); does not infuse the transient attack with air, nor lend a sense of infinite dissipation to the decay of sound, etc.
Yes, SS has worked to surround players with a greater sense of space immediately around them and gathered within the planes that they occupy; and, yes, mechanical artifacts of distortion have been reduced, but this hardly should cause anyone to be tempted to claim that SS is approaching tube sound in quality of the listenting experience as a whole. By and large, SS has merely improved in the areas that it already excelled at, but reducing sterility in source distortion hardly makes up for the still existing - and I would argue, terminally flawed - rendition of space on: 1) space's integral relationship to sound as it moves within space 3) the sound projection's harmonic structure as it relates to space, and 4) the relationship of how differing sound sources intra-act in space simultaneously as they move out from and towards the listener.
This is what is meant by "congruency" and "continuity".
I do not want to say the SS can not be enjoyable and that it is not worthwhile, but that is a relative statement - and should not be altered just to make some more comfortable.
I have recommended systems composed of SS components, but that does not alter the present state of SS vs. tube, nor does setting up a "euphonic" strawman to push over when you are pushed, nor in, at the end, retreating in trailing arguments regarding price, convenience, etc.
Ahhhh, that felt goood.....
Asa (Threads | Answers | This Thread)
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